Force has been Nerfed?!

I think the thing here (looking at some of the comments) is that you kind of contradict yourself.

"100% doesn't make sense as we don't have character scaling so we've set it to 30%"
"50% was considered but we settled for 30% which is over double what they had before"

So you can't use a percentage because of scaling and yet...you use a percentage?


Just a vague comment that bugged me.

Though for 'speed' as the one you mention we do have rules on movement speed in the physical section unless thats been removed. And we do 'scale' physical damage based on rank. So...not sure where 'no scaling' comes from.

If you're D rank then in force your melee damage would be that of a C rank. So instead of doing 5hp you'd do 10hp. IF you were C rank you'd do 15hp instead of 20hp.

For speed your D rank walking speed of 5mph would be increased to C rank which is 6mph (as its rounded down).

Just saying
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I don't think i've ever in my entire time here seen a complaint about how much force gives until this suggestion. How easy force is to get into has always been the complaint. But yeah...lets ignore that for now. Much better things to fix, but if this is the way you want to go then sure.
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Ignoring third and hybrids for a moment:

Force is meant to be the 'ultimate buff' and required you absorbing 70% of your element and that 70% has to put you to 150% MP or higher.

Now let's see what we get:

• Spells are boosted to 150% which is a 50% increase thus a D rank which normally does 20hp will now do 30hp.
  
• Physical stats are boosted by 30%. Quick question here. Is this 30% in place of the slayer's normal buffs or on top of them? So what I mean is...they already get 10% I think. So do they get 30% buff to that increased amount (so 5.5hp rather than 5hp) or do the base amount thus negating the original perk?  If the former them melee damage is increase to 7.15 and if the latter to 6.5. Its not a huge difference at this rank, but it becomes bigger as they rank up so could just be used to clarify.
  
  If we look at this in terms of the former...a 30% increase in speed is actually an increase to what it was as speed goes up 25% each rank.
  
  In terms of melee damage if its the latter then the amount of damage you do is less than the old way until you reach A rank in which case the boost is actually more effective. So force is actually stronger than it was once you reach higher ranks.
  
  In the case of the former a 10% boost which would boost say an A rank's 20 to 22hp being increased by 30% would put the damage to 28.6. An S rank with the 10% boost would be 27.5. So at A rank your force is actually putting your damage higher up than previously.
  
  Look at it like this
  
  First number is base melee damage, second is with 10% slayer buff, third is if this is replaced by 30% in force and fourth is added to by 30%.
  
  D rank 5, 5.5, 6.5, 7.15
  C rank 10, 11, 13 ,14.3
  B rank 15, 16.5, 19.5, 21.45
  A rank 20, 22, 26, 28.6
  S rank 25, 27.5, 32.5, 35.75
  SS rank 30, 33, 39, 42.9
  H rank 35, 38.5, 45.5, 50.05
  X rank 50, 55, 65, 71,5
  
  So yeah after you hit A rank...this actually is better than the scaling regardless of which way you look at it.
  
  In fact....i'd say these numbers seem pretty fair. So just clarify that one point and you're good
  
  Ah yeah...weapons forgot about them.
  
  Is the 30% applies to the base melee damage only or say I was using a sword that boosts my melee from 5hp to 10hp...would the boost with the sword be 5+30%+5 or 10+30%
  
  
  
• A status effect to your physical effects. I would suggest we add in something that says that the slayers have to define what this effect is and how it works in their apps otherwise we just get 'oh yeah it burns you or it poisons you'
  
• Free spells for seven posts.
  
  
  Now I think this last one is the big deal. Free spells for seven posts that are at 150% power rather than 100%? That's pretty sweet....however there is a limit to how much one can fire off and they can't use their strongest spells over and over because of cooldowns. So it does become a bit tricky, but still its a big buff.
  

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My main comments are in bold. In truth, now i'm looking at this again, with a bit of clarification, this should be fine. It may have been nerfed ever so slightly, but not ridiculously so and in some cases, such as melee, its actually been boosted in terms of power at higher ranks, which makes sense

I would say that perhaps we should tweak how we go into force...perhaps just make it that you have to absorb 70% MP within a certain period rather than this 150% MP bit (which I realise I introduced when I was an admin so my fault there)

My last comment here cause at this point, staff would rather be hypocritical and insulting rather than ya know, neutral. It's a combination of the fact that the cost is too high for the benefits one would receive. @Elyx it doesnt give 30% it replaces the 10% buff from perks and makes it 30%. Most of the real problems, now that we have had a day and some warnings and ban threats, is that though this mode said to be one of the strongest there is, does have an even playing field for what it takes to get there. Yes the whole " This is only for pvp." is thing, but most people use this as a pretty solid foundation and if the foundation is solid, the structure will tip and collapse. I will leave here with this

Tatsumi Yamato wrote:My last comment here cause at this point, staff would rather be hypocritical and insulting rather than ya know, neutral. It's a combination of the fact that the cost is too high for the benefits one would receive. @Elyx it doesnt give 30% it replaces the 10% buff from perks and makes it 30%. Most of the real problems, now that we have had a day and some warnings and ban threats, is that though this mode said to be one of the strongest there is, does have an even playing field for what it takes to get there. Yes the whole " This is only for pvp." is thing, but most people use this as a pretty solid foundation and if the foundation is solid, the structure will tip and collapse. I will leave here with this

Whether its 30% as a replacement or 30% additional this is actually stronger for higher ranks than it was previously. It is slightly weaker at lower ranks, but that shows that the force itself is growing a lot stronger as the person levels. It only used to be '100%' because a C rank was twice as powerful as a D rank. That hasn't been the case for a long time now so stop referring to those numbers in your arguments is my case here.

The 30% for free, on top of 150% spell power, free spells for 7 posts and an 'aura of your element' is actually quite a lot. Especially, as you could then have this force buff stack with other unique abilities on your magic and then boost it further with other spells. Or we could perhaps go really canon and have certain spells only possible in force and those spells being a lot stronger than normal spells of their ranks.
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The fact that we have a 'generic force' when we don't have 'generic slayers' is perhaps at issue here. For some people, like when Zack was a sky slayer, it would make sense for him not to gain something that boosts his defense and instead gains a greater increase in speed.

Perhaps a system could be put in place to allow a person to 'custom build' their force to make it suit their slayer or at least their slayer type e.g. an earth slayer is probably not going to get a speed boost, but might get a defensive boost. Force is meant to make you more 'dragon like'. So it would make sense for it to be unique to each person as they were trained by different dragons, but that's another topic/.

Honestly, the idea of the custom force is a rather nice idea. Though I would honestly tweak it to maybe presets based on the slayers element such as like you said, "Earth slayers get more defense." Like sky and lightning could have little less attack and higher speed, fire could be the opposite there, ice could be bulked in with earth, and so on. The problem I see with it having been done before was that there are well... A metric fuck ton of slayers on site and it would be hard to let everyone apply their own force in with their app if anything. I mean, if we did code in the grouped versions of slayer forces into a registry it could be easier. Even then, it would be up to the admins to decide it. The reason I believe they hadn't before was because of how many slayers on site there are and how many more there can be what with the custom lacrima from the VIP and any IOTM versions. Perhaps THOSE could create their own force rules within the standard form of slayer force rules. Either way, I have seen this unique force apply on another site I've been on and it's better than one could actually believe it to be. I'd be for it myself.

On another note... Tatsumi, please refrain from the bashing please. It never looks good on your character to do so.

It's topics like these that make me want to refrain from even coming close to the suggestion forum. This is supposed to be a forum where people discuss their suggestions on how to make the site better. Hatred and flames and drama need not be here. Now I'mma say my peace in a calm and rational manner. I will not direct my comment to anyone, I'll just say it to everyone.

I've been the Sky Demonslayer ever since I created this account. I wanted to be the Sky Demonslayer ever since I found out you could be slayers on the site. You would not believe how happy I was when Katherine gave me the lacrima I own now. Because I liked the magic. To be completely and totally honest, I didn't even know we had Slayer Buffs and all that up until my 2nd month or so of having this lacrima. Once I did find out, I still didn't care much. The thing I cared least about was Force. And I still do.

The only redeeming factor I remember about Force was that if two slayers went into Force in the same PvP topic it essentially became dragon ball z. And that was awesome. I remember hearing about Heero and one other person (I believe Nightken or Kirahunter) fighting each other and they both went into force. I was so angry I couldnt find that topic. Why do I mention this? Because I have never once went into Force and have never wanted to outside of a few times I fantasized about going all Goku v Vegeta mode inside a topic. I never cared about free buffs. I liked the whole "eating your element thing to regain MP" but Force itself on a numbers standpoint I didn't care about. Can't we be slayers cuz... You know... They're cool? I haven't watched past episode 70 of FT and all I know is that wind magic is cool, and Slayers are cool. Once Wendy was introduced I almost died of happiness. Now with the added bonus of being a holy warrior of purging Demons!? Sign me up!!! That was my initial response to Sky DeS. Not "we get free buffs, sign me up" If i wanted buffs I'd put them in my app. That being said, i won't even address the stat and numbers drop of Force because I never focused on it. I won't say it was a buff or nerf, won't say if it's fair or unfair. All I'll say is that Force will eventually become to the site as Bayonetta is to Smash. "It was nerfed to the ground, but people will still use it because they wanna make it op again"

That's my two cents. Flame me if you want, this will be my only reply to this topic.

It's actually not a nerf. Do the math based off the Melee numbers and it does put it in the next range. A rank mage melee does 20 hp worth of damage. 20 with a 30 % increase is 26. S rank melee damage is 25. Not a nerf.

Custom Force "sounds" like a good idea till you look at how complicated it would be to create and for staff to balance appropriately. There is already enough complaints and harassment sent to staff about grading issues and the fact everyone cant be on the same page. To be fair, slayers have a one up on everyone else and if they dont like what they get ( no matter if it changes) then they dont have to be slayers and give it to someone that appreciates it like kissos.