Force Revision

Dragon Force:
A Slayer must consume at least 70% magical energy from his respective element in order to achieve Force, however, their total magical energy must equal to 150% or higher. In other words, the Slayer can still use magic, but if it does not equal to at least 150% magical energy after consuming 70% magical energy, they must consume an appropriate amount to reach it. If the Slayer can achieve this within the next 5 posts, Force is activated. If they cannot, the magical energy is rapidly consumed by the Slayer's body, causing any magical energy that was above their maximum to go down to the max. The Slayer can then try to do this again, if the opportunity is there.
Dragon Force highly increases the power of the Dragon Slayer's magic, physical endurance, speed, and strength. (Dragon Skin: Body is covered in scales of their respective element) It puts all stats into the next range on the character scaling.
The spell power of each rank is increased to 150%.
In Dragon Force, the Slayer gains an aura of their element that engulfs their body. Physical attacks deal status effects from their respective element. ( Frostbite, Burn, Poison, etc. )
During Dragon Force the Slayer does not lose any mp from casting spells, but after it wears off is left with 5% mp.
Lasts for 7 posts.


So, the main complaint that ive found is the requirements for going into force mode. Looking at this, I can see that your squeezed by a time frame, and location for entering force. Some slayers have this easy, gaining 70% mana if you were a sky slayer, an earth slayer, water slayer, light/dark slayer, or any other slayer that has easy access to their element would be easy! But other slayers, like lightning slayers and fire slayers dont have it that simple. It would be far too difficult for them unless going up against another mage that uses that exact element.

The way I see it, is that the 70% mana in five posts can only happen in limited circumstances, like lasting spells or massive sources of an element. I think the best way to solve this, is to either change how consumption works, or lessen the requirements. I think that consumption should go back to the way it is in the anime, where you consume X amount of X element, and X amount of mana based off of how much is consumed. Of course much bigger sources would take longer to consume, im thinking a maximum of three posts for the biggest amount (EX: A forest fire for fire slayers). Slayers with an abundant availability of their element (Light, Sky, Skadow) would have a bit of a deblility to them, making it much harder to achieve force. Either it takes much longer, or they dont get as much mana.

The point im getting at here, is that consumption should work more like it does in the anime so force is easier to acheive. Have the maximum amount of mana you can regain withing one consumption be a much better numer, and have varying levels of mana regen based around how much of the element the slayer eats.

I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

Well, being an Earth Slayer, I would know how hard it is to get Force. Unless I'm battling an Earth Wizard, then it would take me 14 posts to build up 70% MP, in which case I would not go God Force. In other words, at the moment, going Force is practically impossible, even for Slayers that have an abundance of their element.

hmm; dont got much to metion then what said before and whats up there. Would say should be allowed to eat weapons and armor since can balance when making them.

If we look at canon:

The only time people have entered force from eating is when consuming a large source of magic power e.g. Wendy with Face, Natsu with Etherion/Flame of Rebuke.


So the way the system is makes more sense canon as in normal elements (such as Natsu eating a torch or Wendy just eating normal air) only recharge a small amount to get you 'fired up', but when you eat something powerfully magic you recharge a large amount.

However, of course it perhaps doesn't work as well for the site.

I believe (and I could be wrong) a dev is working on a 'force' training system so you can train to go into force easier or train your force to do different things. Though tbh its only really a big deal in PVP as you can make your opponents pretty much how you want with some of the systems so if you want to force make them your element mages or monsters or something

I was told by the member that put forth that idea that it was rejected, and later they were removed. Honestly I'll say, as a Sky slayer, the system is fine how it is. The only thing that is really needed for the force, or slayer system is clarifications. In that I mean how one becomes a hybrid, and 3rd gen. While we all known, you have to have the lacrima. It doesn't say you have to do the secondary training. I feel it should be added.

In my personal opinion, Force is not something that should be easy to go into. It is literally a game changer, not to mention it has a lot of good plot uses and implications. And as such, it should only be used a few times. Going into Force easily (outside of third gen of course) kind of ruins the whole effect and authenticity of it.

Like I said, just my opinion. I say this knowing I'd benefit from easier Force lol but I like story.

weretiger5411 wrote:I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

I'm going to add on to this and say the force rules can be completely ignored even in a PvP situation if your RP partner(s) consents to it.

/prays the event team consents to it in the near future.

Speed Demon Zack wrote:If we look at canon:

The only time people have entered force from eating is when consuming a large source of magic power e.g. Wendy with Face, Natsu with Etherion/Flame of Rebuke.


So the way the system is makes more sense canon as in normal elements (such as Natsu eating a torch or Wendy just eating normal air) only recharge a small amount to get you 'fired up', but when you eat something powerfully magic you recharge a large amount.

However, of course it perhaps doesn't work as well for the site.

I believe (and I could be wrong) a dev is working on a 'force' training system so you can train to go into force easier or train your force to do different things. Though tbh its only really a big deal in PVP as you can make your opponents pretty much how you want with some of the systems so if you want to force make them your element mages or monsters or something

Ah, you seem to be forgetting Rouge and Sting. They were able to enter force on command, so that may be something we could look into. Though, I can imagine that would only apply to slayers that are either an incredibly high rank ((SS-H)) or ones with vastly rare recources.

Fire King Ardere wrote:In my personal opinion, Force is not something that should be easy to go into. It is literally a game changer, not to mention it has a lot of good plot uses and implications. And as such, it should only be used a few times. Going into Force easily (outside of third gen of course) kind of ruins the whole effect and authenticity of it.

Like I said, just my opinion. I say this knowing I'd benefit from easier Force lol but I like story.

You see, were trying to keep it difficult, because as it is right now its nearly impossible to do.

Fire King Ardere wrote:In my personal opinion, Force is not something that should be easy to go into. It is literally a game changer, not to mention it has a lot of good plot uses and implications. And as such, it should only be used a few times. Going into Force easily (outside of third gen of course) kind of ruins the whole effect and authenticity of it.

Like I said, just my opinion. I say this knowing I'd benefit from easier Force lol but I like story.

Were not making it easy to get, were changing it so force is actually achievable without the need of outside help. Like wendy with face, she was able to achieve it on her own (Though there was ethereon in the air, a larger amount of the element could be substituted for that.)

Speed Demon Zack wrote:If we look at canon:

The only time people have entered force from eating is when consuming a large source of magic power e.g. Wendy with Face, Natsu with Etherion/Flame of Rebuke.


So the way the system is makes more sense canon as in normal elements (such as Natsu eating a torch or Wendy just eating normal air) only recharge a small amount to get you 'fired up', but when you eat something powerfully magic you recharge a large amount.

However, of course it perhaps doesn't work as well for the site.

I believe (and I could be wrong) a dev is working on a 'force' training system so you can train to go into force easier or train your force to do different things. Though tbh its only really a big deal in PVP as you can make your opponents pretty much how you want with some of the systems so if you want to force make them your element mages or monsters or something

I'm still new to this (as you can see considering this is my third post) but my view pretty much coincides with this.

Displays of the usage of Dragon Force have been extremely rare in the anime and have only occurred in extreme situations where the Dragon Slayer can consume an amount of his/her element that's powered up in some way (etherion particles from FACE with Wendy/etherion flames).

Therefore if these situations aren't occurring in scenes then their shouldn't be a reason as to why Dragon Force is being used in the first place. To remove these rules and make DF easier to do without training (as this man rightly suggested) would remove the reality basis on which this ability is supported by.

Although I really can't answer the situation with Sting and Rogue as they have shown, multiple times, to be able to use Dragon Force at will. However, it should be noted that their Dragon Force is considerably underwhelming in comparison to say Natsu's or Wendy's (where they have used the ability to go against all odds and defeat remarkably more powerful opponents). Sting and Rogue's Dragon Force usually doesn't accomplish much and is proved to be underwhelming when Natsu defeats the two of them on his own in the Grand Magic Games (while Dragon Force is activated for the two of them).

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm still new to all this and frankly don't even understand the mana system yet but these are my views based on what I've seen in the anime).

Joan Blackheart wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

I'm going to add on to this and say the force rules can be completely ignored even in a PvP situation if your RP partner(s) consents to it.

/prays the event team consents to it in the near future.

Like to bring up again that these rules are ONLY for PvP, outside of PvP these are flexible to the story or plot but please keep in mind force is suppose to be a hard thing to achieve(as adere brought up) with consequences afterwards. And agreeing with Joan, these rules can be altered so as long the other participants agree to it in a PvP scenario.

Also not apart of the discussion but still, Rouge and sting are able to enter dragon force at will because they are third-gen, and third gen get these perks naturally because of the effort put into it (requires training AND the larcima, both primary and secondary magics filled).

weretiger5411 wrote:

Joan Blackheart wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

I'm going to add on to this and say the force rules can be completely ignored even in a PvP situation if your RP partner(s) consents to it.

/prays the event team consents to it in the near future.

Like to bring up again that these rules are ONLY for PvP, outside of PvP these are flexible to the story or plot but please keep in mind force is suppose to be a hard thing to achieve(as adere brought up) with consequences afterwards. And agreeing with Joan, these rules can be altered so as long the other participants agree to it in a PvP scenario.

Also not apart of the discussion but still, Rouge and sting are able to enter dragon force at will because they are third-gen, and third gen get these perks naturally because of the effort put into it (requires training AND the larcima, both primary and secondary magics filled).

Although now I understand now why Sting and Rogue can activate Dragon Force at will; I'm still left stumped as to why their force is so underpowered compared to Natsu's and Wendy's whom were able to dominate convincingly stronger opponents while in their Dragon Force. Could it be because Sting and Rogue aren't intaking huge/unique amounts of energy like the latter duo/is it explained somewhere else in the anime? If anyone knows, I'd just like clarification if at all..

Blood Plus wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:

Joan Blackheart wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

I'm going to add on to this and say the force rules can be completely ignored even in a PvP situation if your RP partner(s) consents to it.

/prays the event team consents to it in the near future.

Like to bring up again that these rules are ONLY for PvP, outside of PvP these are flexible to the story or plot but please keep in mind force is suppose to be a hard thing to achieve(as adere brought up) with consequences afterwards. And agreeing with Joan, these rules can be altered so as long the other participants agree to it in a PvP scenario.

Also not apart of the discussion but still, Rouge and sting are able to enter dragon force at will because they are third-gen, and third gen get these perks naturally because of the effort put into it (requires training AND the larcima, both primary and secondary magics filled).

Although now I understand now why Sting and Rogue can activate Dragon Force at will; I'm still left stumped as to why their force is so underpowered compared to Natsu's and Wendy's whom were able to dominate convincingly stronger opponents while in their Dragon Force. Could it be because Sting and Rogue aren't intaking huge/unique amounts of energy like the latter duo/is it explained somewhere else in the anime? If anyone knows, I'd just like clarification if at all..

Ah, i think that their force is underwhelming compare because of some spoilery stuff.

Why I think it seems underwhelming:

Blood Plus wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:

Joan Blackheart wrote:

weretiger5411 wrote:I like to point out that these requirements for force are for only PvP situations, in PvE these are very flexible to the plot of the thread(Though should still not be spammed throughout the thread as the consequences should still happen).

I'm going to add on to this and say the force rules can be completely ignored even in a PvP situation if your RP partner(s) consents to it.

/prays the event team consents to it in the near future.

Like to bring up again that these rules are ONLY for PvP, outside of PvP these are flexible to the story or plot but please keep in mind force is suppose to be a hard thing to achieve(as adere brought up) with consequences afterwards. And agreeing with Joan, these rules can be altered so as long the other participants agree to it in a PvP scenario.

Also not apart of the discussion but still, Rouge and sting are able to enter dragon force at will because they are third-gen, and third gen get these perks naturally because of the effort put into it (requires training AND the larcima, both primary and secondary magics filled).

Although now I understand now why Sting and Rogue can activate Dragon Force at will; I'm still left stumped as to why their force is so underpowered compared to Natsu's and Wendy's whom were able to dominate convincingly stronger opponents while in their Dragon Force. Could it be because Sting and Rogue aren't intaking huge/unique amounts of energy like the latter duo/is it explained somewhere else in the anime? If anyone knows, I'd just like clarification if at all..

That can be argued back and forth on here but in my opinion I think its because of plot, They wanted to show how bad@$$ natsu was in the fight against the two so they decided to have him beat two third-gens in force in a unison raid(on here these raids make the spells massively stronger) where natsu overcame it. Some of the reasons why we do not follow rules set by the anime word per word is because how unbalanced or unfair it seems at times, again my opinion so could be wrong.

Would like to iterate after seeing the point on here; yes force is supposed to be big blue moon thing( at leas thats what some people think). Though isn't it just plot armor saying convenient lacrima or magial item or whatever? Makes it feel more real if actually eat the amount instead of convenient magical item.

Zero-sama wrote:Would like to iterate after seeing the point on here; yes force is supposed to be big blue moon thing( at leas thats what some people think). Though isn't it just plot armor saying convenient lacrima or magial item or whatever? Makes it feel more real if actually eat the amount instead of convenient magical item.

I agree in the sense that it makes it more realisTIC, but more REAL I don't agree with. If we're going to reference the anime at all, the only people in the anime who have called upon Dragon Force without these convenient magical intakes are Sting and Rogue (and as previously aforementioned; are third-gen so they're kind've irrelevant).

However, I've also heard that apparently Carla (at some point) explains that force (she was probably referencing dragon force specifically) requires only an extremely high intake of the slayer's element itself, and at not one point does she talk about the fact that the element has to be integrated somehow with a powerful source such as etherion particles.

So, with that in mind, maybe the rules should be changes because (even though it hasn't been done in Fairy Tail as far as I'm aware) anything can happen in a roleplay, that's what makes it a roleplay and not the show it's based upon, because there is the canonical idea that it could happen.

Sting and Rogue enter Force on command because they are third gen, which we have here. Just saying.

Fire King Ardere wrote:Sting and Rogue enter Force on command because they are third gen, which we have here. Just saying.

Yea I'm aware - but my view regards the other generations hence why I said:

Blood Plus wrote:Sting and Rogue (and as previously aforementioned; are third-gen so they're kind've irrelevant).

Ok so lets get back to the original point of the thread since we have gotten off course.

The original point was that with the current rules for force, it made it next to impossible for a slayer to go into force and need to be changed based on ace's opinion(Feel free to correct me if im wrong).

As people have said, force for a slayer is not meant to be something easily achieved and agree with the current rules. Ace agrees with how force is not meant to be achieved easily but says it should be made not so seemingly impossible.(Again, correct me if i'm wrong)

However as I and Joan said, these force rules are for PvP only, and even then these can be altered in the PvP situation so as long as both participants are willing. Finally their is plenty leway outside of PvP, you want to go force in a job your doing? No one is going to stop you because these rules are meant for PvP only.

Now people have said(Including I) that force should still be saved for the most dire situations(as it is rarely seen on the show with exclusions of the third-gens, even then the third-gens to my knowledge saved force to where they truly needed it), but that is not stopping a fire-dragon slayer going into force by consuming a whole forest fire they are put in, just it is to be reminded again, that force should be used in dire situations to signify the awesomeness and power it carries with it(Because even with third gen they still suffer after force is used).

I just wanted to make sure we discussed fully the original suggestion of this thread before we move on to another topic.

Sorry Blood I was in the middle of posting so I didnt see, stupid notifications.

I myself have gone Force 3 times. Two PvE and one PvP. I am a fire slayer, and it wasn't that hard. And fire isn't the easiest element to get, but it's doable. Plus staff is working on Force rules atm anyways. I just dont think it needs to be easier, it's quite possible to do as is.

I think Force can have plot elements and be activated for plot or in a more lenient way in both PvP and PvE anyways.

I just dont think it's seemingly impossible as you put it. Just my opinion. Seeing as I have done it three times, and I could have done it more if I didn't value it's plot purposes. Heck, three times is a bit much imo, but the missions were tough, and the other time I was fighting Heero.

Speed Demon Zack wrote:If we look at canon:
I believe (and I could be wrong) a dev is working on a 'force' training system so you can train to go into force easier or train your force to do different things. Though tbh its only really a big deal in PVP as you can make your opponents pretty much how you want with some of the systems so if you want to force make them your element mages or monsters or something

This I could def get behind; im all right with working for it. Anyway it is true can go force for plot related things; however is it really for pvp? You pick the arena so dosent matter anyway if can eat alot; if oppnenet dosent want you going force there not gonna let you pick a spot with a ton of your element.

I agree we should keep a set amount when it comes to spells; however for natural sources we should set a amount cause it does little to nothing for you at the moment and is the only source for some slayers.I also think should be allowed weapons/armor since it has been proved that they can be powered by outside sources like lacrima not using your magic.

Also at poison slayers; can you honestly say there is alot of poison mages out there? Main source would be alchol or other things that they can carry. I get this is RP site and have lots of room to work with it; but I disagree on the fact of force. There are some who think it some super mode that means insta win a fight. It's not, its more like a last chance power boost that leaves you with little to no MP, which means your gonna be tired after that. I get should make it hard so people dont abuse it but as it is; you need to pretty much plot it which is really tiresome after a while. I can get where peeps are coming from on it being rare in anime; but I also know theres others who just see it as the next stage.

Heero-chama wrote:The system was changed from the original system that I created. It used to be a SET number of Magic Power you received for the size and amount of the element you ate. % would be gained depending on how much you ate.

Literally there was a certain amount gained from a D, C, B, A, S and Above level abilities. Consuming an ability A Ranked or higher would automatically throw a person into Force. Because of the AMOUNT of wind, fire, water, in those level of spells and enchantments. But anyways, if you guys want to go back to the old system; that would solve all of the problems pointed out here. Peace and love.

An A rank spell is insta force? Really? Thats...ridiculous. H rank being able to go force off of a single A rank spell is beyond OP. On top of that this doesn't take a person's rank into account.

If a D rank spell costs 1/10 of a D rank's MP to use and 1/20 of a C ranks...then it shouldn't restore the same amount.

The rule now is pretty much(or it should be if I recall correctly): A spell of a particular rank restores a certain amount of MP depending on your rank. That's it. Simple.

Aceflux wrote:

Speed Demon Zack wrote:If we look at canon:

The only time people have entered force from eating is when consuming a large source of magic power e.g. Wendy with Face, Natsu with Etherion/Flame of Rebuke.


So the way the system is makes more sense canon as in normal elements (such as Natsu eating a torch or Wendy just eating normal air) only recharge a small amount to get you 'fired up', but when you eat something powerfully magic you recharge a large amount.

However, of course it perhaps doesn't work as well for the site.

I believe (and I could be wrong) a dev is working on a 'force' training system so you can train to go into force easier or train your force to do different things. Though tbh its only really a big deal in PVP as you can make your opponents pretty much how you want with some of the systems so if you want to force make them your element mages or monsters or something

Ah, you seem to be forgetting Rouge and Sting. They were able to enter force on command, so that may be something we could look into.  Though, I can imagine that would only apply to slayers that are either an incredibly high rank ((SS-H)) or ones with vastly rare recources.

No i'm not forgetting them. They are 'third gen' slayers and therefore are an exception and on site third gens can go into force at will.

Whilst its not 100% explained in the anime/manga I believe how this may work is that they absorb the energy from their dragon slayer lacrima and that allows them to trigger force. I would say this lacrima needs to refill afterwards and that is why they can't just spam it.

I would guess that whilst this amount of magical energy is enough to trigger force it is only just able to do so which is why compared to the like's of Natsu or Wendy the force is rather underwhelming.


---------------
Amount of element doesn't seem to matter in canon. What does matter is the magical concentration in that element. So when Natsu ate the flame of rebuke from Jellal that was all of Jellal's remaining magic compressed into a single flame.

If we just allowed it to be 'you eat so much of your element naturally and you go force' then sky, light, dark and earth slayers (potentially water as well) could go force almost instantly whenever they like whilst others can't.

The way it is now does the following:
It takes into account canon.
It makes it difficult to acheive, but not impossible (heck the missions and socials are your stories. You want to find some mythical magical air supply that triggers force for some reason go for it. Or maybe your enemy is like Goku and wants to fight you at your best so super charges you with your element)
It takes into account a person's rank.
It makes it a bit fairer with the amount of someone's element available.


Now of course the argument against the plot bit is that some people say 'i don't want to buillshit my way into force'. The answer to this: don't bullshit. Have it make sense to your character's story. Use it to make them grow. Stop worrying about following everything so rigidly and realise these things are mostly guidelines rather than rules. That goes for staff and members alike.