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    Post by Wolfe 28th August 2015, 11:42 am

    Ok... so once again this topic.... Speed....

    As i was "off you go... *shus you away*" out of my guild chat to put this on the board so everyone can have their say in it.

    I have talked to many people on the site, and many of them staff. I know they want to stay away from #s because then it turns into a numbers game and then the dick waving ensues.

    However, i refuse to believe that on a site where EVERYTHING else is determined by rank that speed is not. The levels of spells, the damage you do, the rank of jobs, the special perks you get, and abilities of weapons you can unlock, the %s of boosts, the number of uniques on your magic, etc...

    I am not saying i want the dick waving, but there needs to be something in place. i refuse to believe that just cause someone says their char is fast, they are faster then me. (My char has magic boosts, is physically light, has movement based magic abilities, and is naturally fast)

    Also alot of newer players tend to ask questions about it all the time and alot of them even claim to have issues "wrapping their heads around it" because there is nothing set down at all.

    Also there are 2 stats based around it in the form of magic boosts (passive, and activate),Item boosts, Linages, etc.. in the form of "Speed" and " Reaction Time", which effects movement speed, dodgeing, and nuber of attacks someone can do in a post

    This is also the number one broken stat abused by Power Gamers.

    Lovingly,
        Wolfe


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 28th August 2015, 11:48 am

    This seems more than a complaint then a suggestion.

    All you have said is we need something for speed, but haven't said any ideas for it.



    Melee damage is only determined by rank because...well....if everybody is doing 5hp damage with their fists then it doesn't make much sense, but I think its more of a skill thing necessarilly than strength.

    Damage at least is easy to determine to some extent with some variance to it.

    Speed is not because there is much variety between the speed of one person to another even without rank being involved. Without a number system it seems impossible to determine.

    ALso speed is only really needed for PVP situation and that is not a core element for the site. I've tried to make it a bit more accessible for those who want it, but....


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    Post by Eris 28th August 2015, 11:54 am

    Well.  In order to quantify it I had three little miniature projects I posted to my bank to give me somewhere to work from.

    Personal speed "How Fast are You?" Was one of them.


    "Using the same conclusion I reached above for Strength using 25% increase from the previous rank, 50% at H from S,  here is how fast in Meters per Second a mage of a given rank might sprint.  (These are a guideline not a rule or limit, a base number to work from.)

    6.6D 

    8.25C 

    10.3B 

    12.8 A

    16S 

    25H


    The average punch on the other hand is different.  Using a Boxer as the baseline,  increasing by the same %,   the default punching speed per rank is (in Meters per Second):

    About:

    11 D
    13 C
    16 B
    20 A
    25 S  
    38 H


    Both these numbers are of course effected by Speed enhancements,  and not Strength."

    As with each of the three mini projects, I used base level human capabilities to serve as the foundation/starting point for D's.


    Last edited by Lady Red on 28th August 2015, 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 28th August 2015, 11:54 am

    Personally I think speed should have a base walking, base running, and base reaction that is set at normal levels. Base running speed is 15mph, with 18mph being a sprinting speed (based off of IRL numbers). The absolute fastest human reaction time recorded was 1/5 of a second. But normally, human reaction time is about 1second if you're very focused on what you're reacting to, and I mean VERY FOCUSED.

    I'm going to point out another element of speed you neglected to mention... Agility.

    Agility is the speed at which you can move individual parts of your body. This includes turning while running, performing commando rolls in all directions, or even simpler movements like spinning a sword to block an attack from behind.

    Reaction time is the time it takes to react to something, but if you can't move fast enough then your ultra fast reaction is worthless.

    Speed is how fast you can move your entire body (running/walking/swimming).



    So I half agree with you that we should have a base level, as it would be nice to be able to have. BUT there are so many factors that determine Reaction Time, Speed, and Agility that it would be ridiculously hard for the moderators to calculate it. However, I think its BS that someone could run at 50mph with NO enhancements at all so possibly a rank based maximum for unenhanced speed should be placed.

    Oh wait... we have that. 7.2 meters per second is the fastest we can run without any buffs. This was confirmed multiple times by several mods. But is sometimes (many) ignored when dealing with magic, which means the player can run 50mph during PvP, which means they have a dick to wave.
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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 28th August 2015, 12:03 pm

    I suppose we could allow people to determine their base speed at D rank and then have say a 25% increase per rank.

    Agility and reaction time are much harder to quantify then running speed though. Its quite difficult


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    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 28th August 2015, 12:13 pm

    Speed Demon Zack wrote:I suppose we could allow people to determine their base speed at D rank and then have say a 25% increase per rank. naturally the grading mod would be expected to make the base speed actually make sense right? I mean I'm not gonna have to worry about a 500lbs dude comin' at me at 100mph while unbuffed right?

    Agility and reaction time are much harder to quantify then running speed though. Its quite difficult
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    Post by Pein 28th August 2015, 1:15 pm

    Honestly, i just simply believe their is no way to completely create a base for speed on forum sites. Theres just so much to look at and so much too take in, as mentioned many times before. Even strength plays a big part in it, along with muscle endurance and your bodies fatigue level etc. There's is just simply no way to vlassify base speeds. I run track and if seen the biggest muscle guys run faster times then the most physically light kids. Obviously during the battle, fatigue increases, yet some character bodies may have an endurance higher then others. These right here simply make guidance difficult.

    And then, speed will never equal agility. They are very close, do not get me wrong. But it is completely different if a mage and I are running head first into each other, then if a mage and I are throwing ninja stars at each other. Hopefully that make sense xD

    But, this discussion on speed boils down simply to one's RP skills. Yes, i do agree that if someones says their fast, they just cannot automatically be faster. Like my character Nagato speed is 25% higher then that of the average D-Rank. But just because of this, I'm not gonna just evade every D-Rank attack that comes at me from the average D-Rank. Realistically, my body will get tired, my movements choppy.

    Think about Naruto v.s. Neji (yes I am a naruto fanboy...). Of course Neji was faster then Naruto. But Naruto stamina was higher, creating a battle where in the end Neji was outlasted.

    Yet Neji was physically and evasively stronger because of the byakugan?

    Personally, i believe, the reason this complaint comes from is the people you are fighting in a PVP thread. Maybe they are not keeping the battle interesting and realistic? Just a thought.

    However, Zack was hitting the nail on the head. With this vague base for speed, not only can some guidance be stablished, but maybe some agreement.


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    Post by Pein 28th August 2015, 1:17 pm

    P.S, I simply believe this because it seems this coming from the fact that some people may be autododging attacks because of their high speed. Or so they think.


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    Post by Wolfe 28th August 2015, 1:29 pm

    actually i stay away from PvP mostly because of that, and i have magic set that pushes "hard to play with" in a PvP setting. This was more brought on because of new people asking and no one having an answer, but still giving one and overflowing the new people with different answers. This includes different answers from different staff.

    and also the dick waving.... i hate the dick waving...


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    Post by Knight of Zero 30th August 2015, 10:07 am

    Before I start, I apolgize if i say something incorrect out of ignorance of rp stuff and combat system or if I misunderstand something already stated.

    As wolfe said about the pvp, the question of speed always seemed a deterrent to participating in pvp. I can imagine if someone is a lot faster then you they could dodge some things, though at similar speeds dodging always seemed a ... complicated affair.  Anyway, I do agree with the idea of a base running/waking speed though I think it should be a set amount. Cause correct me if im wrong, though does body size not affect your stats too much? I'm not saying a person like Sei described should run that fast, but it seems like many people have similar body builds on this site.If that is true and maybe in some cases where it isn't, I can imagine people will aim for the highest allowed speed or close to it if determined by player and mod revewing.
    Also if people say that their magic makes them move faster, why not list it as strength or unique ability? That way can keep track easier as well through buffs and the like?
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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 30th August 2015, 10:45 am

    Well zero.

    People do put their improved speed on their magic apps as a percentage.

    However, in terms of 'body build' its not just body build. Some people say that there character focuses on speed, like myself, whilst others seem to be the big bulky heavy hitting ones.


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    Post by Eris 30th August 2015, 1:55 pm

    We really don't need much.

    Just some basic guideline of the default values -could- be like the reference guide I shared up there, from which everybody has the opportunity to focus on speed through speed enhancements in their magic. If you're a fast character, push a little higher or sit at around the defaults I gave. If you're a slower or average character, push a little lower.

    It's just a rough baseline for people to use as a foundation without restrictiveness and the freedom to imagine who you want to imagine in as far as you yourself support through your descriptions and actual bonuses applied by your magics or items.


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    Post by Raiza 31st August 2015, 7:58 am

    speed is not just numbers, its height, weight, muscle mass, training and the alike, then there is magic to imply. Since we have one link from magic to stamina (0mp = no stamina and fainted) we already know this, so we know we can easily assume our magic within the bodies already enhances us to a point in where I feel a 'build' style could come into place. Well, in order to do this 'style' of a build, we need a 'base' average speed per mage rank

    For this exercise we'll say this base speed is 7.2meters a second at D-Rank. This is the 'base' average speed at a low rank.

    Ranks could go up by 25% like previously stated and such. or my idea, a base raw increase of 2meters

    D: 7.2
    C: 9.2
    B: 11.2
    A: 13.2 and so forth...

    those would be the 'base' rank by rank speeds, now we apply 'body builds'

    Body builds is a style of dictating how much speed and strength is accurately lost, yet at that same rate, we must always realize, strength can take people further with 'burst' speeds, while speed is 'raw speed' so I'll get to the burst bit later(burst i.e a jump dash uses your strength, not your speed persay)

    though Body builds wouldn't be able to just be able to accurately define speed/strength alone, hence why we'd want to go further on and say how much can a person accurately lift, based on rank alone, disregarding sizes?

    though thats where we get this kind of balance I've come to use before.


    More speed = less strength = higher base speed but less burst speed.

    However, more Strength does not always = less speed. You can be strong without losing speed, while typically faster characters lose their strength, this is why we call buffs and well we already cover them fairly nicely.

    So the build is, that we allow people to call their 'build' without giving a 'type' such as light/medium/heavy ect...

    just we must try to keep in mind, some 10ft tall hulk is not going to be a 'light' type. Yes their leg length can take them to faster lengths, but this isn't accurate. See leg length just means they can use their top speed for longer periods of time, as it takes less effort for each stride of the leg, where as a smaller would get more tired, but even more agile.

    So, upon creation, or even now we can always implament this:

    Speed vs Strength

    We have a base total of x% we're allowed to give to our characters for speed or strength. but we also must take 1/2th that % and subtract it from the other as well. Or even go further and subtract from the other completely.

    so example, a light build would be(going by the assumption we'd do a 20% base)

    D-rank mage:
    Base speed: 120% (moves at 8.6meters per second)
    Base strength: 90% (Burst speed would allow a burst of 6.48 meters)

    Burst speed is classified as how fast one could burst away in one second using raw strength, this is typically shown as when an anime character is standing still, hunches down or even stands perfectly straight, then dashes away taking flight over a small distance.


    then we have 'size' builds

    obviously we'd need to judge case by case via size, but I'm sure we can 'cap' somewhere, no?

    larger size = more strength, less speed (must remember just because they are not as fast, doesn't mean they'd lose a race, typically they'll be more or less taking less energy to move the same distance as you.

    I mean realistically, a 5ft speed demon myrmidon will not be covering the same distance as a per say... 20ft tall giant, but yet who is faster? Hard to truly realize the smaller is faster, yet the larger can cover more distance.

    This is where speed =/= distance for size

    Larger = greater distance but less speed, and typically more strength.

    Want to argue that speed/size is not accurate? Go catch a fly. It'll be hard cause you're bigger, and they're much more faster...yet who can cover a greater distance faster?

    So to argue the next point I'd suggest the size/speed/strength system as well, though to do such would be more stats we need to worry about, but to cap it off would be nye impossible, since we have people already transforming into hulking creatures of 50ft tall+ or larger.

    So an example of the speed/size thing would be

    a 10" would have their meters per second increased by lets say 2, while their base speed also decreases by say 10% (example, this example isn't well thought out), yet their strength would be increased some in proportion to it.




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    Post by Eris 31st August 2015, 8:15 am

    I'm rushed and stressed so I only skimmed that, so baring that in mind:


    That is entirely too nitpicky and I can easily see people being turned off the site over that. The only ones who would be likely to like it would be the more technical players while technical players generally have their own ideas for things.

    It should always be remembered that this is a roleplaying site. A writing site. Not an MMO or Tabletop game. Any rules need to be kept simple and variable with room to play around with minimal restrictions if any beyond Rank. This is why a full stats system for example is frankly ridiculous and receives flak.


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    Post by Cirven 31st August 2015, 11:07 am

    It's not so hard to do speed of each rank and just have it like the HP/Dmg rules as a reference that ppl can use. I had it pretty simple on my site with speed.

    Basically it started at D-rank with having 10 m/s(in RL this is the average speed a person can run) and then you add 10 more m/s per rank above that. So it would look something like..

    D - 10 m/s
    C - 20 m/s
    B - 30 m/s
    A - 40 m/s
    S - 50 m/s
    H - 60 m/s

    This could be fixed to be lower amounts like only giving 5 more m/s per rank but it's pretty simplistic either way. We need to think less complicated with any rules or guidelines being implemented so that people don't get confused. Learned that in the past with trying to make rules/guidelines.


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    Post by Eris 31st August 2015, 11:15 am

    Cirven wrote:It's not so hard to do speed of each rank and just have it like the HP/Dmg rules as a reference that ppl can use. I had it pretty simple on my site with speed.

    Basically it started at D-rank with having 10 m/s(in RL this is the average speed a person can run) and then you add 10 more m/s per rank above that. So it would look something like..

    D - 10 m/s
    C - 20 m/s
    B - 30 m/s
    A - 40 m/s
    S - 50 m/s
    H - 60 m/s

    This could be fixed to be lower amounts like only giving 5 more m/s per rank but it's pretty simplistic either way. We need to think less complicated with any rules or guidelines being implemented so that people don't get confused. Learned that in the past with trying to make rules/guidelines.

    These would be the maximum unaided speeds I would personally consider, for the speed focused sort of characters with experience in sprinting and the like.

    A more average would be half that.

    While slow deliberate beefcakes that are outright not intended to be fast could be anywhere less from that.


    But some simple window of allowance for base speed and a simple progression through the ranks would be ideal, where players can place themselves where they feel makes sense (With some mod guidance on that point.)


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    Post by Cirven 31st August 2015, 12:09 pm

    Lady Red wrote:
    Cirven wrote:It's not so hard to do speed of each rank and just have it like the HP/Dmg rules as a reference that ppl can use. I had it pretty simple on my site with speed.

    Basically it started at D-rank with having 10 m/s(in RL this is the average speed a person can run) and then you add 10 more m/s per rank above that. So it would look something like..

    D - 10 m/s
    C - 20 m/s
    B - 30 m/s
    A - 40 m/s
    S - 50 m/s
    H - 60 m/s

    This could be fixed to be lower amounts like only giving 5 more m/s per rank but it's pretty simplistic either way. We need to think less complicated with any rules or guidelines being implemented so that people don't get confused. Learned that in the past with trying to make rules/guidelines.

    These would be the maximum unaided speeds I would personally consider,  for the speed focused sort of characters with experience in sprinting and the like.

    A more average would be half that.

    While slow deliberate beefcakes that are outright not intended to be fast could be anywhere less from that.


    But some simple window of allowance for base speed and a simple progression through the ranks would be ideal,  where players can place themselves where they feel makes sense (With some mod guidance on that point.)

    I can agree with that. I still say that with most things there should be a weakness though so hopefully that is kept in mind for any boosts and stuff. Like I can see the speeds exceeding the numbers I put up with good enough weaknesses behind it. I did base the guidelines I made on that idea after all.


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    Post by Raiza 31st August 2015, 12:19 pm

    just because I was making a point, and just becasue my magic is based on a theorm of MMO, doesn't mean I was suggesting making this based on an mmo. In fact if we made a speed stat at all, then it'd be near mmo level, where as a tabletop would simply be 'squares per turn' ect...

    Speed is relevant is what I'm saying, to say you can only move so fast yet we have characters the size of houses, they'd obviously move further per post than someone say... 5foot tall.

    Hence why just like I said on my prior post, to even try to put in a true stat for speed, you'd have to consider so many things. THis is why my entire argument was speed is relevant, just be fair to your opponent, and if you can't, then try to get some form of a mod in the pvp.


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    Post by Eris 31st August 2015, 12:20 pm

    Cirven wrote:
    I can agree with that. I still say that with most things there should be a weakness though so hopefully that is kept in mind for any boosts and stuff. Like I can see the speeds exceeding the numbers I put up with good enough weaknesses behind it. I did base the guidelines I made on that idea after all.


    There wouldn't be any fiddling.  It's just the baselines.   Speed enhancements would increase from there normally,  simply providing the base numbers from which you can actually have some meaning behind what 25% speed boost actually means.   25% of 30m/s becoming 37.5m/s for example,  should you need to get technical (For Dueling or when otherwise challenged by a fast thing you need to check to see who or what is faster)



    Raiza wrote:just because I was making a point, and just becasue my magic is based on a theorm of MMO, doesn't mean I was suggesting making this based on an mmo. In fact if we made a speed stat at all, then it'd be near mmo level, where as a tabletop would simply be 'squares per turn' ect...

    Speed is relevant is what I'm saying, to say you can only move so fast yet we have characters the size of houses, they'd obviously move further per post than someone say... 5foot tall.

    Hence why just like I said on my prior post, to even try to put in a true stat for speed, you'd have to consider so many things. THis is why my entire argument was speed is relevant, just be fair to your opponent, and if you can't, then try to get some form of a mod in the pvp.

    Your magic had no impact on my comment,  as I didn't even think about it.

    Yes, speed is relevant.  That is why we need a base guideline, a foundation from which to express where you might fall in speed and with which to base 50% speed enhancements and whatever.

    Getting too invasive and saying x can't be y fast because of z is destructive to the RP however.  Giving a general foundation and letting the players choose where they fall on it/where their foundation is,  is important to the flow of things.   Minimal staff impact should be had with what a player believes their character should be at.  Even if it doesn't immediately make sense to the mod.    No,  someone like my character shouldn't be at the max allowed base speed.   But just because someone would be bulky wouldn't necessitate reduced speed,  because neither does it imply increased strength.  

    Physical appearance is cosmetic.  It holds no impact in fiction beyond that which you make of it.  Which is why skinny boys or girls can be seen arm wresting with hulking muscular abominations.  

    Choosing where you fall on the starting foundation from which you use to determine what x% of whatever is is ideal.

    Which is why I said it was too "Nitpicky" and that we shouldn't get so involved.

    We should also remember that PvP isn't the focus of the site and that player abilities are taken incredibly relaxed until you go out of your way to start comparing people and getting into the grittier whats what when dueling or such.   Even jobs aren't taken too seriously.


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    Post by Cirven 31st August 2015, 12:31 pm

    Raiza wrote:just because I was making a point, and just becasue my magic is based on a theorm of MMO, doesn't mean I was suggesting making this based on an mmo. In fact if we made a speed stat at all, then it'd be near mmo level, where as a tabletop would simply be 'squares per turn' ect...

    Speed is relevant is what I'm saying, to say you can only move so fast yet we have characters the size of houses, they'd obviously move further per post than someone say... 5foot tall.

    Hence why just like I said on my prior post, to even try to put in a true stat for speed, you'd have to consider so many things. THis is why my entire argument was speed is relevant, just be fair to your opponent, and if you can't, then try to get some form of a mod in the pvp.

    The way speed has been for awhile now has been by whatever people said they wanted which is fine and honestly I prefer it that way with those who I can trust to not go overboard with things.

    I see where you are coming from and we can leave it up to mods to figure out if a person's speed is correct for how they are built possibly. Granted, this throws a lot more work on staff and more things for them to comprehend what is too much and what isn't.

    Other thing is too, this is a fictional world we RP where logic sometimes does not work so well. Who said a big character couldn't have some sort of way of moving fast like a smaller person? A lot of things are up to a person's imagination for that reason. Its more fun for others that way. Otherwise we could be getting too restrictive. This is why speed and any stat is so hard to have as an actual number.

    Lady Red wrote:
    Cirven wrote:
    Lady Red wrote:
    Cirven wrote:It's not so hard to do speed of each rank and just have it like the HP/Dmg rules as a reference that ppl can use. I had it pretty simple on my site with speed.

    Basically it started at D-rank with having 10 m/s(in RL this is the average speed a person can run) and then you add 10 more m/s per rank above that. So it would look something like..

    D - 10 m/s
    C - 20 m/s
    B - 30 m/s
    A - 40 m/s
    S - 50 m/s
    H - 60 m/s

    This could be fixed to be lower amounts like only giving 5 more m/s per rank but it's pretty simplistic either way. We need to think less complicated with any rules or guidelines being implemented so that people don't get confused. Learned that in the past with trying to make rules/guidelines.

    These would be the maximum unaided speeds I would personally consider,  for the speed focused sort of characters with experience in sprinting and the like.

    A more average would be half that.

    While slow deliberate beefcakes that are outright not intended to be fast could be anywhere less from that.


    But some simple window of allowance for base speed and a simple progression through the ranks would be ideal,  where players can place themselves where they feel makes sense (With some mod guidance on that point.)

    I can agree with that. I still say that with most things there should be a weakness though so hopefully that is kept in mind for any boosts and stuff. Like I can see the speeds exceeding the numbers I put up with good enough weaknesses behind it. I did base the guidelines I made on that idea after all.


    There wouldn't be any fiddling.  It's just the baselines.   Speed enhancements would increase from there normally,  simply providing the base numbers from which you can actually have some meaning behind what 25% speed boost actually means.   25% of 30m/s becoming 37.5m/s for example,  should you need to get technical (For Dueling or when otherwise challenged by a fast thing you need to check to see who or what is faster)

    I was more meaning the crazier boost some might try to get like a full 100% boost or something more but yeah I got where you were coming from.


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    Post by Eris 31st August 2015, 1:02 pm

    Cirven wrote:
    I was more meaning the crazier boost some might try to get like a full 100% boost or something more but yeah I got where you were coming from.

    100% isn't crazy.  It is only + What you can already do again.   Think about it this way,  if you were only twice as strong as you are now,  twice as fast,  you wouldn't make for a very good super hero.   You'd just be the "That guy" in the gym who can lift the most weights.

    It isn't super,  and it certainly isn't "magical".  

    It isn't so relevant to the topic.  But it's an opportunity to say this.    

    100% isn't amazing.  The only thing that makes it good here is artificial scarcity on the site.   10% bonuses are nearly worthless for most things.  Unless you already have high numbers,  a 10% boost to something barely makes a dent.   10% boost to senses?  What,  you can smell something from an extra foot or two away?  How amazing.  
    100% wouldn't even be good for something like that.  It wouldn't be until 500%-1000%+ where you actually start to get slayer-like senses (If you could smell something from 5 meters away at 1000% You'd smell something from 55 meters away.  That starts to look a little more slayer like.).    
    10% boost to strength?  Congrats,  you can lift an extra 10lbs or so,  which is disproportionate to the damage increase it would provide.  Because numbers like HP and MP matter far more.  10% of 10 damage isn't great,  but it's noticeable.  A 100% boost to damage is vastly more effective than a 100% boost applied directly to say HP or to a 80hp damage spell.   But a 100% speed boost would only make you run noticeably faster.  10mph to 20mph.  20 to 40.  These aren't amazing speeds unless you already have a high base.

    Just wanted to say this.  Percentages are all over the place and treated as far more valuable than they are. It's like a stock market treating 1 gold bar as though it were worth 50, when it's just not.


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    Post by Irina Naginata 31st August 2015, 10:33 pm

    I feel as though if we make a base speed for everyone everywhere and forcing people who want to focus on speed to make abilities in magic is a terrible idea, no one should have to waste ability slots just so that people know that they have a fast character especially when you can put other much more useful abilities in your magic. Also having a base speed makes the entire concept of having a fast character at any rank a moot point cause now everyone has the same speed unless they put in magic buffs. I like to think that my character is capable of actively having a good chance to outrun a lot of people regardless of rank before magic enhancement is involved, but making a base speed makes that impossible cause now everyone is just as fast as I am simply because no one has magic enhancement.

    Speed isn't something we should make the same for everyone, because if you do that it forces people from making a variety of different character types into a single simple boring everything is the same character type until you throw magic on top of it. MAGIC IS NOT EVERYTHING! YES IT HAS A PRETTY BIG ROLE BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGG!


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    Post by That Adopted Kid 31st August 2015, 11:22 pm

    The main and only problem that extends from speed is the fact that people don't take hits and claim that it is the reason that they can avoid things. For jobs it's not really needed as you RP it all out, and just have fun, if anyone is complaining that people aren't taking enough hits in jobs then... there is no pleasing those people ever, until it is a solid structure... that is all derp.

    For PvP if you actually take hits or gasp... built a few defenses for your character it's a non-issue, effectively adding a speed base stat/% is just telling those who claim to dodge everything to take a math course first, and stop that side of bad sportsmanship. Still it's not needed for PvE, which is the focus of this site, I have no suggestions though for a PvP one because no matter what people would simply get annoyed and or take the highest value possible. If you really wanted it to be in depth you could create different body builds/types but then it's turning into a weird thing of genetic, and abilities, andit just becomes a cluster of people min maxing more so than is possibly going on.

    Basically just relax and RP it out, it's not needed but wouldn't hurt, just had to implement without it being viewed in a negative light and or abused, at least according to how I am thinking about it that is, I might be part of the problem >_>.


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    Post by Irina Naginata 31st August 2015, 11:35 pm

    I don't think we need to touch speed, people are just being babies over PvE stuff despite the fact that it's PvE where people don't care what happens. And if you do make speed nerfs a thing, I will be mighty upset because it's only going to effect PvP and speed based characters in PvE, and guess what I have a speed based character who doesn't PvP. Why nerf something when you have no need to nerf it because the only place it really matters is in PvP which almost no one does anyway. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

    Edit: and for the record you can't even get any good speed buffs in magic anyway cause apparently a D rank can't even get a 20% increase to speed, the highest I've seen is like 5%. Mods wont approve things that make speed characters speed characters, and adding a stat system will basically just kill the idea of speed characters all together. Why make speed characters when you can make a strength character or a glass cannon magic character.



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    Post by Cirven 1st September 2015, 4:23 am

    Irina Naginata wrote:I don't think we need to touch speed, people are just being babies over PvE stuff despite the fact that it's PvE where people don't care what happens. And if you do make speed nerfs a thing, I will be mighty upset because it's only going to effect PvP and speed based characters in PvE, and guess what I have a speed based character who doesn't PvP. Why nerf something when you have no need to nerf it because the only place it really matters is in PvP which almost no one does anyway. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

    Edit: and for the record you can't even get any good speed buffs in magic anyway cause apparently a D rank can't even get a 20% increase to speed, the highest I've seen is like 5%. Mods wont approve things that make speed characters speed characters, and adding a stat system will basically just kill the idea of speed characters all together. Why make speed characters when you can make a strength character or a glass cannon magic character.


    This would only be something that affects PvP most likely because otherwise as stated above, people have full control over what happens in their PvE threads. I don't mind having speed not be determined but this is something that keeps coming up with members meaning that its more of an issue than we thought and should maybe have something in the rules for speed.

    Buffs work differently now than they did in the past with the new rules. Basically from how it is worded a buff spell affects anything of that rank for its full buff percent then anything lower is affected 25% more for each rank and anything higher is affected 25% less. This was a rule that was not able to be implemented in the past but is now up which should help with getting higher buffs to things.


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