Balancing of Summons

Honestly, this addition isn't really needed, but it's just something I noticed while working on my summons. So like, when it comes to regular summoners, and celestial key summoners, there isn't as much going for celestial key summoners stats wise. For regular summoners, they can get 3 tier 2 summons in total with better stats than that of tier 2 summons for Celestial wizards. Not to mention the fact that celestial wizards can only get 2 of the tier 2 summons. I realize that this fact is probably due to the strength of zodiac keys, but some people might not want to get a zodiac key. Also, summoners also have their own version of the zodiac keys, that's more free form, with a trade off for worse stats. So like, I was thinking for the tier 2 keys for celestial wizards could be bumped up to 3 keys, or have the stats be more in tune with that of the tier 2 summons for regular summoners, just so someone could go for a celestial wizard, without feeling the need to get a zodiac key. Like I said though, the addition isn't really needed, since most people don't worry about their stats and stuff all that much.


Note: I'm just naming each of the ranks of summons in each of the catergories as tiers, just since its easier to type out.

Honestly, Summoning should have been overhauled completely back when the magic rules were updated a little over a year ago. The concept of "Normal" and "Celestial" summoning mechanics are very outdated. In concept, one was supposed to be the "caster" version while the other was the "holder" version. Because that's pretty much how you classified all magic before the revamp. These do not exist anymore in such a way. Moreover, the tiers are also something that should have been revamped. The reason the celestial variants are weaker is because you could get both at C rank. Tier 2 Normal summons were one for each rank, and back then ranking was much harder so the trade off made sense, at least to me. Ranking is so simple now the trade off is eh at best. I also think, as you said, it was in order to balance the power of the Zodiac keys, which have more stats than the Immaculates of normal summoning. But that too is a little outdated. For one, there are only 12 Zodiac keys. This means only 12 celestial summoners can ever have their tier 3, and that's if they get approved for it and keep their activity so they don't lose it.

Moreover, I don't actually think there is anything stopping normal summoners from claiming a Zodiac key instead of going for Immaculate. There isn't anything in the rules about it that I recall, and our magic apps have nothing classifying what type of summoning our magic follows like it did two years ago. Unless Celestial summoners are allowed to make Immaculates for the day they can't get a Zodiac key. I have never tried or recall anyone else with celestial summoning magic attempting to mix the two types. And, if it is allowed to mix types, then would that mean you could have both of the tier 2 types?  The rules are pretty vague in that regard. Common sense says no you can't mix them, but then you have the Zodiac issue.

If the types can't be mixed in such a way though, then I would suggest making a new tier 3 (possibly updating their Tier 2 as well) for celestial summoners and leaving zodiac keys for both types. Or, remove the differences between "Normal" and "Celestial" and just make it all one magic since it's just an outdated system to begin with.

Either way, I agree with you. I don't think it should be a priority, but I hope it is on the table for consideration.

As someone who uses a lot of summoning, I would like to support some sort of change or merging of the two types. Don't have much of further suggestions, but I will put faith in master summoner Samira any day.

I have to agree with this. Summoning is not only fractured within itself but next to requip and takeover it is so much weaker so could do with an overhaul.

I've gone over some of the things with my... limited time here on site, but it does seem somewhat weak when compared to something like Requip. I'm not familiar with Take Over stuff myself, but I imagine it wouldn't be a bad thing to give Summoning stuff some love. I recently took Summoning into my own magic, but i'm trying to figure out ways that'll make it as good as I had hoped it could be, but am struggling a bit.

So while I offer little to no suggestions, I would be up for having summoning stuff get a bit of a buff here and there.

Long story short, we talked about this and pretty much all agree that summons need a small rework. Whether they will receive an up- or downgrade and what exactly that rework entails is yet to be determined and we'll get to that when it's time to implement the changes. Other than that this is approved.