Immaculate Summons V.S Golden Key Summons

Alright, so this has been bothering me for a while now! If you look at an Immaculate summons, versus that of a Golden Key, things don't make sense. You put in much more effort in order to obtain an immaculate summon, yet it is inherently weaker than the Golden key. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed it so far, but I do believe it is a problem. Take for example the 6250 word requirement of the Immaculate summon to that of the 1000 word requirement of a Golden key. 6.25x more effort for something weaker! The immaculate summon should be buffed, or given yet another extra slot for a passive/active; as it stands the Immaculate summon is not worth obtaining! It could be fun plot, but I expect a reward that corresponds to the effort I put in.

Oh, another thing... You can own multiple keys, but only one immaculate summon....

You can only own 2 zodiac keys at most and when obtaining a zodiac, you forfeit your immaculate. Likewise, immaculate are different summon keys to celestial; basically, they have the same benefits as celestial, minus increased durability/damage, which you could easily obtain by using two passives to give them a boost in both. They are the celestial spirits of the regular summon keys IMO or downgraded celestials idk.

Then you're wasting theslots, which you donDon have to do with a Golden Key. It takes a great deal moMontfort for the immaculate. Yes, it is a downgdifferent, but why?

Dude, I can't even understand your post. You better get that mumble checked.

I was on my phone v.v

Vlad wrote:Then you're wasting theslots, which you donDon have to do with a Golden Key. It takes a great deal moMontfort for the immaculate. Yes, it is a downgdifferent, but why?

So... from my understanding, you're saying it's a waste of slot, but. . . if you read the rules on the Zodiac keys, they, too, take up a spell slot, rank with the user, and get an extra passive or active ability. Let me compare and contrast.

Zodiac Key:
- 1 additional passive or active
- More durability than Immaculate Summons (Immaculate: D: 70; C: 140; B: 210; A: 280; S: 350; H: 490; Zodiac: D: 75; C: 150; B: 225; A: 300; S: 375; H: 525; difference: D: 5HP; C: 10HP; B: 15HP; A: 20HP; S: 25HP; H: 35HP)
- More damage than Immaculate Summons (Immaculate: D: 10; C: 15; B: 25; A: 35; S: 50; H: 60; Zodiac: D: 19; C: 28; B: 35; A: 47; S: 60; H: 75; difference: D: 9HP; C: 13HP; B: 10HP; A: 12HP; S: 10 HP; H: 15 HP)
- Gotten via applying for them (50/50 chance of not receiving key)
- Rank up with player
- Take up spell slot
- Forfeit Immaculate if obtaining Zodiac
- Can own 2
- Can be obtained at any rank

Immaculate Summon:
- Obtained via soloed thread; can be anything
- Can be obtained at any rank
- 1 extra passive or active ability
- Ranks up with player
- Takes up spell slot
- Cannot own an Immaculate and Zodiac
- Can own one

So, in reality, you're just complaining about not being able to own 2 Immaculates like you can Zodiacs and that it's harder to obtain a Zodiac than it is an Immaculate; plus, less durability and damage. But wait! You can change the durability and damage of the Immaculate by giving a 50% boost to both aspects; they're separate passives if you decide to use the 1 extra as a passive so 50% for booth should be fine as long as you give decent drawbacks. You then get 15/23/38/53/75/90 for damage and 105/210/315/420/525/735, which, guess what, makes Immaculates better than Zodiacs. So, you're just complaining to complain.

No. You are force to waste the slot on something that should not be as it is. I write over 6k of plot for a summon that isn't as good as someone who wrote 1k? Fuck that. And then I have to waste it's extra slot to make up for the deficient? Hell no.

Vlad wrote:No. You are force to waste the slot on something that should not be as it is. I write over 6k of plot for a summon that isn't as good as someone who wrote 1k? Fuck that. And then I have to waste it's extra slot to make up for the deficient? Hell no.

Then don't have an Immaculate Summon? Get a zodiac key. There are simply solutions to your issues; you're just overlooking them and trying to fix something that isn't broken. Appreciate what you have, not what you can't.

I'm not being unreasonable.... I'm simply suggesting that the immaculate get a buff! It requires more work than a Zodiac. I do not think I'm in the wrong here...

Vlad wrote:I'm not being unreasonable.... I'm simply suggesting that the immaculate get a buff! It requires more work than a Zodiac. I do not think I'm in the wrong here...

Immaculate summons are not zodiacs though, the reason zodiacs are stronger than the other keys is because of the plot/story behind them. They're meant to be the strongest summons out there; there shouldn't be summons that can easily rival their power; it's like Slayers and regular magi. Immaculates are simply stronger normal summons, but not as strong as Zodiacs. Zodiacs don't have a definitive way they're obtained because they're essentially already "tamed" beings; what is the person going to do? Write 6k words of finding a key? Boring. Versus an Immaculate that you have to go out of your way to tame and make the key for.

An immaculate is NOT a key!

An immaculate is for any other type of summon that is not a key!

Vlad wrote:An immaculate is for any other type of summon that is not a key!

Exactly. They're different. Don't try to make them the same.

Im not! Im just saying buff the Immaculate! It deserves it

Vlad wrote:Im not! Im just saying buff the Immaculate! It deserves it

By buffing the immaculate, it's essentially making it the same as Zodiacs.

How so? You're giving the harder to obtain thing a more deserving reward....

Vlad wrote:How so? You're giving the harder to obtain thing a more deserving reward....

Let me refer you to the post I made about their sameness and differences. Let me also refer to you that Celestial keys are supposed to the strongest of all summons.

Then lower the Immaculate requirements

Vlad, Immaculate summons can be used for any type of summoning magic, vs Golden Keys which can only be used for CS magic (or in some other plot-related stuff, but we won't get into that).

Golden Keys you need a position for, and if you don't get a position you STILL need to reserve a spot for the key. And even if you do hold the position, you need to remain active to keep it. Do you need to remain active to keep an immaculate? NOPE!

Immaculate summons give you a thread, increasing your plot / story

You have the CHOICE of having an immaculate, and again the Golden Key you don't

The Immaculate summons don't need the WC reduced because of the comparison between obtaining the two. The only way to obtain a Golden Key is through:

Item of the Month
Positions
Killing a member with a golden key and taking it for yourself

Assuming all of the positions are filled, it can take MONTHS to get the position of a golden key. Items of the month are generally expensive, plus can be bought by ANYONE, making it definitely harder to get for yourself. Finally killing someone is highly situational, because you need to find someone with CS magic that is willing to kill off their character.

Compare that to writing up 25 250 word posts. The thread is WAY easier, plus it doesn't limit you to spirit magic. Not everyone wants CS magic. Sure Immaculate Summons are weaker than Golden Keys, and even then I'm being VEEEERY leniant with that, as Immaculate summons aren't that weaker. A very slight difference between damage and HP, that's it. Honestly, it's fine as-is.

Would like to chime in with the fact that when have the Gold keys ever been fully taken? Not to mention the fact only CS users can get them which limits the user pool to a very small portion, can not even have a passive or UA to give you CS abilities, have to have straight CS magic. That is all would like to add.