Damage / HP Hotfix

A.2 Spell Power, Categories and CRAZY STUFF

Spells are separated in different ranks: D - C - B - A - S - H  (lowest -> highest)

However, within each rank spells differ as well. Some spells deal repetitive damage over a duration while others hit hard instantly. The power of spells within each rank fluctuates and follows certain scaling. When calculating damage in the combat widget, you have to know what kind of spell you have. The widget will take care of the damage calculations for you. 

If you are not using the widget but you just want a general idea of how much damage different types of spells do, the following rules apply:

Power Levels:
D: 100
C: 200
B: 400
A: 800
S: 1600
H: 4800

This list of power levels is used to calculate when one spell overpowers anotherWhen spells  of the same rank clash, each mage takes into account the current power level of the spell and any other effect e.g. element with the stronger spell winning.

You can use this list of power levels to calculate damage. Below is listed how much of that power level is applied to different types of spells within that rank.

We already have this thing.

Yet nobody uses those numbers at all.  Everyone just has 100% HP,  and takes 10% damage from equivalent rank hits.

Buuut,   10% of say A-rank's 100%.  What is that.  Well,  if an A-ranks damage value is 800 then that A-rank's 100% is 8000.


Just add a zero.

D: 1000
C: 2000
B: 4000
A: 8000
S: 16000
H: 48000




An H-rank no longer becomes more or less immune to low rank spells.




An H-rank who takes a dozen D-rank hits would be knocked down by 1,200 HP.  It may not seem like much against the 48,000,  but it is something.  It is there and it has the ability to build up and stack. 




What is more is that now instead of saying "A-rank damage" You could work from anywhere between say 500 to 1200 with more leniency in general for players to customize their spells and attack values for different sorts of damage effects they wish to create.

One thing I would note however is that we should still abolish the ridiculous 1.5X rank hard-limit.  It's ridiculous and pointless,  and cripples things such as DoT effects.   You could easily exceed that with a simple punch,  yet your spells are severely/strictly limited behind this fact.



Just a rough idea for an easy improvement, perhaps even temporary until whatever gets drawn up in the future.

I am taking this into consideration with my HP system rather than the silly 10% thing there will be proper HP and damages. It might also end up changing the spell power bit slightly. So that combat between ranks is a bit more viable.

This would make spell fighting easier, their are even templates out there that support hp and mp display values.

I'm all for reworking the damage system in any way possible to make it a tad bit less ridiculous, with 10% only from an equivalent rank.

Simply by someone cutting the damage they take in half, it would take 20 entire spells for someone to defeat/kill them. At D rank that isn't much of a problem considering their spells usually have low Cool Downs, but for S rank? And H rank?

I support.

The same rank spell does 10% is complete bull. It is completely baseless trivial number that was decided upon by who knows who just because they needed to to have an answer even though they had put 0 thought into it.

A spell of your rank will always cost 10% or more. Therefor to defeat an enemy as the same rank as you it will require literally all of your mana(or more at higher ranks). This would also require that all of your spells hit, your opponent dodges nothing, your opponent does not block, your opponent has no armor, your opponent has no defense boost of any kind and you can only use offensive spells.

10% damage for a spell of the same rank is the biggest bull since the Golden Lacrima. Just to emphasis how bull this bull is I've prepared some figures for you.

For a D or C-Rank mage to defeat a mage of their same rank it will take 100% of their magic power with all of their spells hitting.

For B and A-Rank mages it will take 150% of their magic power

S and H 200%

Not to mention as the second arc in Fairy Tail(where they break into that rich dude's house), the non-mage warriors gave us some friendly exposition explaining that for most mages their greatest weakness is the fragility of their bodies. So by this canon fact mages of your same rank will have the absolute lowest defense and health of all beings of the same rank.

So you know that vulcan you one shotted in that one job that one time? Now that enemy requires 300% of your magic power to defeat.

So as my final word on that subject, "Bullshit!"


More specifically on this subhect I really hate the idea of a HP system at all because then it becomes less about writing and more about math. The next natural step is adding a dice rolling tool to determine the variation in damage of differing attacks because the damage of an attack can vary depending on where the attack hits. I'll have no part in that.

I'm a role player not a roll player! Let's not start down this slippery slope.

However I agree the percent thing is super dumb. How about we handle damage in the way a text based rp should? By using these magical things called words to describe our injuries and our physical state. Then it's all in the hands of the players like it should be. If someone is being a turd and absorbing impossible amounts of damage, we call a mod on him because that's godmodding and is against the rules. Problem solved.

I concur with Kira, something like this is not needed one a Site meant for story and not PvP, this site has always been more about PvE and story than a gamers mentality of PvP, We are Role Players, we write stories of our characters, not bloody compete and call dibs on who can beat who, this aint League of Legends, no,

Keep it to the story, don't put this site into the confines of a game and ruin it for those who value story above anything else on this site,

Kirahunter wrote:The same rank spell does 10% is complete bull. It is completely baseless trivial number that was decided upon by who knows who just because they needed to to have an answer even though they had put 0 thought into it.

A spell of your rank will always cost 10% or more. Therefor to defeat an enemy as the same rank as you it will require literally all of your mana(or more at higher ranks). This would also require that all of your spells hit, your opponent dodges nothing, your opponent does not block, your opponent has no armor, your opponent has no defense boost of any kind and you can only use offensive spells.

10% damage for a spell of the same rank is the biggest bull since the Golden Lacrima. Just to emphasis how bull this bull is I've prepared some figures for you.

For a D or C-Rank mage to defeat a mage of their same rank it will take 100% of their magic power with all of their spells hitting.

For B and A-Rank mages it will take 150% of their magic power

S and H 200%

Not to mention as the second arc in Fairy Tail(where they break into that rich dude's house), the non-mage warriors gave us some friendly exposition explaining that for most mages their greatest weakness is the fragility of their bodies. So by this canon fact mages of your same rank will have the absolute lowest defense and health of all beings of the same rank.

So you know that vulcan you one shotted in that one job that one time? Now that enemy requires 300% of your magic power to defeat.

So as my final word on that subject, "Bullshit!"


More specifically on this subhect I really hate the idea of a HP system at all because then it becomes less about writing and more about math. The next natural step is adding a dice rolling tool to determine the variation in damage of differing attacks because the damage of an attack can vary depending on where the attack hits. I'll have no part in that.

I'm a role player not a roll player! Let's not start down this slippery slope.

However I agree the percent thing is super dumb. How about we handle damage in the way a text based rp should? By using these magical things called words to describe our injuries and our physical state. Then it's all in the hands of the players like it should be. If someone is being a turd and absorbing impossible amounts of damage, we call a mod on him because that's godmodding and is against the rules. Problem solved.

I so agree let creativity Roam free I vote for kiraface

To be honest if you wanted to implement something like that you'd have to put it in the PVP only sections. You couldn't incorporate something like that in events, or the majority of the site. It's already sense that the higher rank you are the more damage you do. Also it makes sense that higher ranking magi take less damage from lower ranking spells. The spells are weaker thus do less damage to those who are stronger and using much more powerful magic.

A D and C rank should never have a chance against an S, SS, or H rank mage. That's just common sense. Someone like Romeo Vs Guild arts would be a slaughter. Hell you could probably put Natsu as a C or B rank Mage and Guild arts as an H rank and it would still make sense why he has been able to put down Natsu with little effort. Plus you would then have to go into which magic is stronger than which, and once you get to that point then people will stop using a certain form of magic all together. Hell in the show Caster magic is supposedly stronger than Holder magic, and Lost magic is stronger than caster, and nonsense like that. It makes for boring, annoying, and downright stupid writing and story.

If you tried to force PVP mechanics on the entire site with this kind of nonsense then you will lose a great deal of members. I'm willing to bet half or even more would leave. We aren't all here for PVP and against another magi bullshit. Hell I know for a fact that PVP mage's are the minority here. We are here to write complex interesting, and compelling stories. We aren't here to play League of Legends or WoW, or SWTOR.

Some generalized system like the % system came in because there is some basic need of a very basic, and unintrusive system of keeping track of both MP and HP. That's all well in good. What you are suggesting is pushing us dangerously close to a path this site should never take, and a path that will likely push away the majority of the people here.

What a lot of you don't seem to realise is that a 'HP system' of sorts has been in a majority of jobs for a while. 'This enemy takes 3 B ranks to take down' ring any bells? On top of that whilst jobs are story based nobody seems to understand the concept that as part of a story you could fail a job. Nobody ever fails a job.

A damage system has been on site since day 1. Spells have set damage of 'C rank damage', but what does that mean?

We also have the concept that 'each rank is double the one below it' and that has worked fine however it has also made it that even with clever RP you cannot beat someone more than two ranks above you at all. Doesn't that seem a bit...restricting on RP creativity? I remember back in the day when a D rank managed to at least stand their ground via clever RP against a H rank. Sure the H rank could of slapped them down at almost any point, but creative RP prolonged it.

We also don't have any idea of what melee damage does nor how weapons actually work on site. The basic idea seems to be 'they do equal damage to the user's rank'. Ok...then what is the point in spells? Why is melee as important as spells in a magical universe? Yes its important as there are melee driven magics and what not, but still...

We also don't have any idea what armor does except 'resists hits'.

I intend to put a guideline figure to this mostly for PVP but also for jobs as 'two B ranks of damage' to take down a monster just looks bleh. I don't plan to have this as a 'you got hit by a B rank spell so you took x amount of damage because you are y rank' I mean this as a guide for you got hit by this amount of damage (regardless of rank) so you get the same amount of HP reduced as anyone else. However, your HP (as a higher ranked mage) would be significantly higher.

It would also allow a visual representation to HP regen as we have lineages and apps and what not where its '5% HP regen' 5% of what exactly?

Granted, as I said, this is mostly for PVP, and I don't plan to force this onto people in any areas. Also, as I said, it is a guideline. You think they should take more damage because you sliced off their arm? Go for it. Not gonna stop ya.

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The percentage system came into place from the members and it seemed to have worked. However, as the arena is becoming slowly more predominant and we have other areas (such as the dungeons, jobs etc) where failure should be possible it seems we need a slightly (and I mean slightly) more detailed system where we replace 'percentages' of HP with actual numbers.

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Again as I said its a guideline. You don't want to use it on jobs? Fine. You want to use your own HP system that is agreed upon by all members in the battle? Fine. You want to not use HP at all and use some sort of 'we are both invincible, but first one to run out of MP loses' or something plans? Fine. Note the word is GUIDELINE.

Or you just have separate damage rules for PvP that don't apply to normal RPs (unless you want them to for a specific job you're doing, since I imagine it could make some have Dark Souls level difficulty). They'd make combat faster and more intense. Some people want to do PvP, and in order to have good PvP, you need decent rules set up in order to prevent people god modding, but you also need them to not be terrible like the ones the site currently has. Conflicts and combat between player characters can be really fun and really good for character development, but the current rules are not conducive to good PvP. If you don't want this site to be about PvP, you're welcome to not take part in it. Just because you don't want PvP, you shouldn't go around opposing streamlining a system you never intend to use because you can do just that and not use it

That is exactly why I intended to put this in (as a guideline) for PVP. Just so people have something for PVP combat situations.

It will probably be different to how people do actual jobs and stuff

That's all well and good, but as I have read it, and the first argument presented it sounded as if it was something that would be forced on everyone regardless of whether or not they wanted to use it. It is that idea I resent. PVP is a part of sites like this No one can deny that, but it shouldn't be forced on anyone.

So long as it isn't forced on anyone I'm all for a set of PVP rules, numbers, and what not. I'm also always for a good simple system that the rest of the site can use to keep track of MP, and HP. Again as a guideline more of an Iron Clad rule.

Also I came very close to killing one of my characters in a job, and he barely succeed by the skin of his body. So it does happen. Of course you won't find it with most of the players here for whatever reason. If you wanted to make it so people could fail you could have moderators who's job it is to play NPCs and enemies for jobs in order to make it far more likely for something to fail. Still that's again only if someone wants that sort of thing and if there is anyone on the site willing to devote such time to it.

The monster takes "x amounts of hits of y rank magic," system we have in place is hardly a system at all. It is frequently ignored and nobody really likes it. Most jobs that specify "you must beat x number of enemies, they take y amounts of z rank magic to beat," require obscene amounts of magic to clear. So much that anyone who actually pays attention to the rule will spend a few hundred posts waiting for their mp to recharge.

For example A Wizard's Grace features a weak enemy in waves of 10 enemies, that take 2 hits of d-rank damage and you have to fight 5 waves.

10x2x5 = 100 D-Rank spells x 10% mp cost = 1,000% MP required to clear A Wizard's Grace

The normal monster actually takes less spells but it is still atrocious
5x3x5 = 75 D-Rank spells x 10% mp cost = 750% MP required to clear A Wizard's Grace

Then the nightmarish strong monster
10x5x5 = 250 D-Rank spells x 10% mp cost = 2,500% MP required to clear A Wizard's Grace. This requires 1,200 posts of waiting for your mp to recharge.

Then the boss enemy is almost reasonable since he is only one enemy and if you roll him you don't have to fight the rest of the monsters. But he still takes 15 D-Rank spells for 150% MP required to clear A Wizard's Grace. This requires 25 posts of MP recharge.

Shine like the moon also features 3 waves of 10 monsters that take 10 B-Rank hits of magic to beat. Seems reasonable, I mean it is an A-Rank job so something with health measured in B-Rank hits can't possibly be dangerous. Except for an A-Rank, B-Rank spells cost as much MP as a D-Rank spell does to a D-Rank. Which is to say 10%

3x10x10 = 300 B-Rank spells x 10% MP = 3,000% MP or 1,450 posts of waiting on MP regen.

At this point in writing the message I forgot the point or what even this thread was about and I'm too lazy to scroll up. So I'm just going to stop now and hope that my post makes sense as is.

People are forgetting that this suggestion is a direct replacement to what is already there.   If what was already there didn't effect you before,  an improved version of it will not now.

Speed Demon Zack wrote:
We also don't have any idea of what melee damage does nor how weapons actually work on site. The basic idea seems to be 'they do equal damage to the user's rank'. Ok...then what is the point in spells? Why is melee as important as spells in a magical universe? Yes its important as there are melee driven magics and what not, but still...

Spoiler:

We also don't have any idea what armor does except 'resists hits'.

Armor has always bugged me.  The way it reads it sounds like it's immune to everything but the "Rests #" and above,   with above auto-breaking it.

But I can't immediately think of a better/different system for armor very effectively.  Perhaps a total number of hits (That can be lowered or raised based on the individual),  combined with a damage reduction rate (That also can lower or raise with the individual) So even if it blocks something some force still applies.  If you wear armor you're still a meatbag with a fancy shell and force still travels through.

Weapons also seem to like auto-breaking against other weapons.  But if weapons break so easily when they get hit,  then they would be breaking left and right when you tried to use them to begin with.  Force is force,  whether it's the blade striking something or something striking the blade.

I intend to put a guideline figure to this mostly for PVP but also for jobs as 'two B ranks of damage' to take down a monster just looks bleh. I don't plan to have this as a 'you got hit by a B rank spell so you took x amount of damage because you are y rank' I mean this as a guide for you got hit by this amount of damage (regardless of rank) so you get the same amount of HP reduced as anyone else. However, your HP (as a higher ranked mage) would be significantly higher.

It would also allow a visual representation to HP regen as we have lineages and apps and what not where its '5% HP regen' 5% of what exactly?

Well, as for that, at the moment at least, it's a literal 5% out of 100%. I remember thinking 60% regen was alright based on my interpretation of damage. But combined with the way damage currently more or less works 5% is a lot. 10% makes you a powerhouse of self-healing. The full maximum 15% makes you a supertank.

Granted, as I said, this is mostly for PVP, and I don't plan to force this onto people in any areas. Also, as I said, it is a guideline. You think they should take more damage because you sliced off their arm? Go for it. Not gonna stop ya.

----------------------------------
The percentage system came into place from the members and it seemed to have worked. However, as the arena is becoming slowly more predominant and we have other areas (such as the dungeons, jobs etc) where failure should be possible it seems we need a slightly (and I mean slightly) more detailed system where we replace 'percentages' of HP with actual numbers.

--------------------------------
Again as I said its a guideline. You don't want to use it on jobs? Fine. You want to use your own HP system that is agreed upon by all members in the battle? Fine. You want to not use HP at all and use some sort of 'we are both invincible, but first one to run out of MP loses' or something plans? Fine. Note the word is GUIDELINE.

I don't even do PvP. But I always base IC capabilities on hard data on what I can or cannot do and use it as a guideline for the IC fluff and tumbles. Like, it might be 10% damage but in IC fluff I can work from there to consider it less or more based on how solidly it might hit or if it perhapse grazed by.

I don't even particularly like fighting people casually. It's mostly just about showing off. It is evident in the way I made Siren where all her effects are primarily large and showy but ultimately ammount to the same as anyone else her tier. When I build a magic app I integrate it with my character, that is what they can do. I can't RP without the magic approved because I'm not comfortable with that disconnect of IC fluffs and OOC Mechanics. The mechanics are the core, the fluff is the flesh and blood.