Hi Everyone!
Now that this has sat for a bit and everyone’s had a chance to get in a post (or not), I think it’s a good time for me to make my own reply. I want to state off the bat that my intention with this thread was not to start a conversation about issues that require staff attention – this was meant to focus purely on things the Development Team, specifically, can do to help with the inactivity. Particularly since I was not a full member of staff when I posted this poll. However, seeing as how I’ve since been made an admin, I suppose there’s no point in deflecting some of the topics that were brought up. I’ll do my best to break this down to a chewable size, but I already know this response is probably going to be a long one.
Takumi Yoshino wrote:Personally, I agree with everything everyone else has said in regards to activity, though my own reasons for not posting much are different. As we all know by now, I’m not in the discord for reasons that will not be disclosed. Because of this, I have a hard time communicating or seeking plots. The combination of this, and an overall lack of members I used to write with a lot and know (save for Mura and Julius) has left me rather frustrated with my inability to actually speak to the people I’ve been roleplaying with.
This isn’t something I’m asking for staff to fix, as they know why I’m not in the discord, but I thought I’d give some insight as to why my activity has dropped so much when formerly I was an extremely active member.
Seeing as how you’ve since been let back into the chat, I think we can consider this one resolved. I definitely get what you’re saying, so hopefully the decision to let you back into the discord will help you with the activity.
Knight Owl wrote:I'm always looking forward to site lore events because it gives my character/s a chance to be a part of the site narrative. It gives me the goody good chemicals when I read about how my character's actions impacted the site lore. I do wish that, before doing any major lore events, it would be a great idea if the small lore events can lead to or even impact the major lore events. Alternatively, assignments can be mete out by the opposing factions. Such assignments could include a fetch quest or a diplomatic one, the latter of which might require the presence of a 'game master'. It doesn't necessarily have to be an event and could function similarly to a job.
I can say that the plan originally was to build up with a few smaller lore events before doing another big one. The only reason we never launched any was due to the inactivity, as well as because there was a period of several months where the Dev leaders (Mythal, myself, and Joh) were just utterly swamped with IRL. But the plan is for the next lore event to be a smaller one and start building up to another large one down the line.
The “game master” feature is something that Mythal and I have extensive experience with on past sites, as well as with D&D irl, so that is something we’re wanting to continue to do with future large lore events. However, every site is different and the methods that were effective on prior sites may not be ideal for this one. It will be a process of trial and error to see what sticks, what works, what people like, etc and may always be in flux, but as long as people are enjoying it we will continue to do it where we can.
RF007 wrote:I can definitely also third Nek's points and those of this anon individual on how to raise activity level on here. For my part, I always look forward to more lore events, more mini events, more new IOTMs and so on since they are not good mechanically, but also because I really feel they increase my site immersion level which, in turn, raises my RP muse for FTRP. Ofc, I do realize that each of these takes quite a bit of time to put together, so I have not been bugging staff about them since I know they are all busy with various things both IRL and on here too. Finally, as always, I am hoping and praying that this FTRP site of ours stays strong in the days to come and also am quite appreciative of all the valuable assistance y'all in staff have given me over the years.
Julius Seas wrote:(Don't mind me making my first post in months)
I pretty much agree with Nekros' points and the anon person.
And I wanted to add my two cents to the clique part, there is nothing wrong with preferring to RP or chat with people you know. The main issue is though just feeling completely left out. As someone who re-joined the site after a couple of years of absence it was difficult to get through in the chat and the times I did et through I was overshadowed by someone who was a part of a group. This would give me the mentality of "why should I even bother?"
As an ex-mod I also have some opinions on that front but I'd rather talk about that in private
Overall I really love this site, it gave me people who I still talk to to this day (old members) and I still want to see this place thrive like it used to <3
Since the two of you deferred to Nek’s post, you can see my responses to him below. But wanted to at least acknowledge these and thank you for your feedback, as well as caring about the site enough to voice your thoughts.
Nekros wrote:Honestly, a little bit of all of it, which I know is a lot of work. Given over the course of my own 2 decade crusade of Online Role-play, i've built up0 my own history of staff work, lore events, yada yada. Though, given some of my recent years of activity, can probably be scratched from the record lol.
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I'd try to talk to former members, if anyone is still in contact/talking with them. Get their thoughts on why they left, if they'd return, and what could reasonably be done that could get them back in a reasonable role-playing habit on FT-RP. While getting our opinions and thoughts are important and good, really, we should be asking those that left on why and what coulld be done to improve to regain activity.
I certainly don’t think this is a bad idea. At the very least I can say it’s something we’ll add to the considerations pile.
Nekros wrote:In the same vain, perhaps once some work has been done above (if anythign at all was mentioned and dealt with), do a mass e-mail through Forummotions services. Its been years since i've gone through forummotion back end, but last I checked there was a way to send a mass e-mail to everyone. So we could do that, mention all that's changed or even ask for those to come back and give some constructive criticism on how to improve. (i.e. The major staff change that happened a couple years ago. Big/Small lore events and how they concluded. Ways the site has improved based on whatever)
Again, something that can certainly be considered and we’ll keep it on the pile while we explore all the options. This may wind up being more of a Seijin thing, so not sure it’s something that Joh, Mythal and I really have a lot of say in, but I’ll make sure we discuss it.
Nekros wrote:Below is someones opinions on why they left and/or slow to return. They'll also provide me with their opinions, based on their experiences with other places, on how they think things could be improved to a couple of the problems they've mentioned. If I dont, ask me in DM or something cause I may forget to repost. xD
anon wrote:Mostly the way the magic system got do diverse that it sometimes becomes impossible to use. Which is a strange thing for me to say because I love stats. Yes, the option to just have statless magic was given, but that kinda contradicts the intention of having site wide/site lore-changing events that basically force you into making stat magic if you wish to be included. On top of that, the events basically resolve around the strongest characters participating due to their power, while the lower-ranked characters of players who'd like to be included either stand no chance when they are, or end up having no influence whatsoever because they lack the power for amazing feats. While it could be easily incorporated to have their written actions take the forefront some more.
That aside, certain magics that make it impossible to dodge (see the destruction of the city the peace treaties were supposed to be signed in). The amount of speed/power/damage that spell had, nobody would've technically been able to escape because it was fused in such a way that everything you could have done to counter it (or save oneself) would be null and voided.
That the damage was inevitable? Sure, and it was an interesting thing to happen, seeing everything go to shit. But the technicalities behind it got me questioning a lot of things. Then the supposed altering of former OTM items that was basically just nerfing, while more modern items/lineages etc were still allowed to exist. In short, the overall power balance.
It's made it hard.
Lore and event-wise, now I've seen firsthand how things can go even if there's a large power difference between characters and make everyone just as important regardless of it, things could be handled differently. But that would need a dedicated team (or few persons) who focus on the alterations that are brought about by the interactions in the event at hand. And if their characters are involved in the event, they should be supportive and not necessarily carrying the entire event, allowing others to bring things to the table as well.
Also, fully finish the event and its side threads before starting a new one.
The magic system is probably always going to be in flux. There is no perfect system on any site, and it will always have to grow and evolve with the community. Right now, I do agree that some big changes to the magic system need to be made, and while I won’t speak for them I can confirm that Joh and Mythal and I are on the same page with a number of things that need to be done. There is a patch in the works that we hope will be well received by the community.
As far as being forced to use stats, that’s not correct. Mythal and I set up the lore events we ran so that people had options to be involved without needing stats. We got some feedback after the first event of things we could do better in that regard and – as I said before – it’s a system we’re still working on perfecting. But even the portions of it that we ran IC, we made it very clear that stats were not require. All we asked for was an approved magic, whether stateless or statted, so we had a general understanding of the involved players’ spell sets and abilities. The only one that I think was stat required was the one Joh ran, and that’s because he was testing a different lore event mechanic that he wanted to try. Again, trial and error at this point. Nothing is set in stone.
As for dodging powers, I can only assume that portion of the post was about the Joya event. I don’t really know what to say about this except that sometimes characters are strong, have well built magics, and it just is what it is. I’m not going to disparage someone for crafting good magic or for being powerful. At the end of the day, no one can kill or permanently mar another player’s character without consent, so players were free to write their characters’ exposure/survival to that event however they saw fit. Furthermore, the only threads where that could even remotely be an issue is in the guided lore threads where it was made explicitly clear that members may be writing alongside or against other members that may be vastly more powerful than they are. If they signed up to be a part of the guided portions of an event, then that is simply the risk they are taking. Not every encounter can be perfectly suited to every person. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little grace toward the people who are doing their best and putting a lot of time and effort into making lore events exciting, worthwhile, and as inclusive to as many people at once as possible.
”Nekros” wrote:For morale, I think we need to have Sei pop into chat and on site on a semi-reasonable basis for him. Like, he's the site owner and all and im sure he's got his own things going on now. But having the owner around, even just a little, I think can help morale. Like he's only popping into the main chat like once every three months or so, says hi, then bounces. I dont know how much he talks to the rest of staff and the dev team, but for the rest of the members, we never see him. Im not asking him to oversee a bunch of work, but maybe act as a bit of a face for the site have a chat with everyone like once a month or something that he can handle. Just something more than he's been doing.
Morale can go a long way.
I have no control over Sei, obviously. I can confirm he has at least seen the feedback, and he does seem to pop in a little more since Mythal and I needing to be promoted. And I have certainly been on other sites in the past where a non-present owner has effected the efficiency of the site. That being said, whether or not Seijin is in chat everyday is not really a good excuse for people not wanting to post. There is an active roster of staff that are there to keep things moving along, and Sei is there to support the administration team behind the scenes when we need him to be, as much as he can. Like everyone these days, he is very busy and has a life and responsibilities of his own, and it’s safe to say that he’s poured more work, time, and effort into this site over the years than all the rest of us combined. There’s not really anything more I can say about this since this is beyond any of our controls.
Nekros wrote:Items of the Month are fun, but really back burner things to do when activity is high or when you're waiting for other ideas to kick in for anything else. Like Micro transactions to video games, should only come after everything else is done imo, whether they cost IRL Currency or Jewels.
In that thought, Contests can be great once activity has started going back up and, if applicable, more mods to handle some of the back end. So potential Contests ideas are liek to hold a mission doing contest. Something that can focus on doing missions, but not just spamming low end jobs. Somehow entice people to go through the different tiers, to rank up. Basically participate in the whole job system. Of course this is a lot of work, so, this example is meant for when activity is high and we can support more staff.
Lore-events also yield raffle tickets that can reward jewels, job reward buffs, fun items. etc. Then once the event is done, calculate. Wait a week or two, then do a big Discord call with everyone who can make it to pull the tickets. This is kind of something the old staff, while they were problem people by themselves, I thought this was a good touch. It also helped build on community social.... ability? Came with some fun, social community interactions.
Items of the month will be on an indefinite break until we up the site activity a bit. I agree that those are not as high of a priority. Similar with contests, though there are probably some contests we could do even with lower activity. Most likely our focus is going to be on lore/holiday events for the time being, however. I know the raffle ticket event that Joh ran was extremely popular and he really liked doing it, so I’m sure we’ll see one again. It’s not immediately on the table as we’re focusing on other priorities at the moment, but highly likely to be seen again relatively soon.
Nekros wrote:While i know and understand that the purges are necessary to a point and when there si a lot of activity going on. Help give people some motivation to at least do the minimum. I think this has hurt the site a bit in the recent year or two, especially of activity and having people think of the site through being in the discord or interacting with everyone in the discord. I think we really need to buff up the community in general, even if its just from a chatting side.
Everyone gets busy and might not be able to chat everywhere or as frequent, which is understandable, but I thinks its a vital portion of keeping any community alive.
I’m not really sure what to say to this one. Frankly, the last year or so Joh and Med were
extremely gracious on inactivity warnings. I cannot emphasize enough on this. Yes, there were still discord purges and accounts archived for inactivity, but the amount of time between each was severely pulled back because they recognized that the community had slowed down.
There is only so much we as staff can do to encourage and pressure people into posting. It is the responsibility of each member to contribute and be active. I can’t force someone to post. Either they want to write, or they don’t, in which case why are they here? Staff already does plenty to keep things moving. We cannot – and should not – hand hold people through the simple act of being active. If someone needs incentive to do the “bare minimum”, that’s not a staff problem, that’s the problem of the person who refuses to put the literal barest work in.
Nekros wrote:To some of this end, Maybe a once a month community day in discord calls. Discord has a lot of free games and activities we all could probably just chill and have fun with. No pressure to post but just hand with the community.
This is an idea I have floated around in another similarly sized discord for D&D that I currently co-own. The other co-owner is a friend of some of the people here and a former member themselves. They liked the idea for that chat to try and build up our D&D community, even if they're not in an active campaign right now.
Not a bad idea. But also one that has been done without success. Joh, specifically, has had
numerous times over the last several months where he has actively invited members to hang out in chat/voicechat with him. He has offered to chill, play games, help people with magic or other site related things. And almost every single time, no one ever joined him. I have no problem with trying to host some kind of regular thing where we just chill as a community and hang out, but people need to actually show up for it to be effective.
Nekros wrote:Cliques. We all form our own little groups to talk or role-play with. Its kind of a natural human thing to do. But over the decade and a half of Online Forum role-play, ive seen this become more of a trend on sites and even FTRP. nothing wrong with forming friend groups to do things with and all, but it kind of intimidates or pushes people away when they cant get in enough through those kind of front doors. Even I really only RP, when I do, with the same couple of people. So like, not blaming or shaming on this. Just some behavior I've seen over the years and feel like i've seen some of the impact from it.
This is also to say that this sort of thing isnt done on purpose either or with any ill intent.
I’m going to give a warning in advance that not everyone is going to like what I have to say on this matter: Cliques are not a thing on this site. I’m sorry, they’re just not. I have been on sites with cliques. FTRP does not have them. This is one of the most welcoming, inclusive sites I have ever been on in the 15+ years that I’ve been doing forum RP. Every time a new member comes into chat, nearly everyone present steps up to say hello, to offer guidance or help, or to offer threads.
It’s been said before by
many others before me, but I’m going to say it again:
People are allowed to have friends, they are allowed to primarily write with those whom they are comfortable with, and it is absolutely unacceptable to make them feel bad about writing primarily with their friends. It does not make them a clique.Furthermore, the only times I
have seen people be exclusive against someone, it has always – and I mean
always – been for a very specific reason. Like it or not, many of the individuals who have been crying “clique” over the last few years are people that have actively and repeatedly exhibited behaviors to make others wary, uncomfortable, or upset. This site is very, very welcoming, but if someone builds up a repeat history of making others uncomfortable then they are going to get ostracized. That’s not the fault of the community, that is the fault of the individuals that have given plenty of reason to be disliked.
Additionally, it is not the responsibility of the general memberbase to always have to go out of their way to invite less present/social members into threads or discussions. I don’t see cliques on this site. What I see are a number of individuals that are socially anxious and have a difficult time inserting themselves into conversations or taking their own steps to ingrain themselves into the community. That’s certainly a valid struggle, but it’s not the responsibility of the community to accommodate around it. It’s a two way street, and at some point people need to learn the difference between “Why aren’t these people including me” and “What can
I do to be better about trying to be included.” Everyone has access to the site community, guild communities, faction communities – they have all the tools, but many are not using them, and are instead building up this idea in their minds that they are being excluded when they're not.
On a more personal note. Nek, I know (or at least hope) you understand how much I really like you. You are one of my favorite individuals on this site. You are always kind, always humorous and doing your part to make people happy, to be present in chat, and many other things. The fact that you took the time to write this big ass chonky post shows me just how much you love FTRP and how much you want to see it thrive. So why don’t you make more effort to post? Why don’t you put this drive for feedback into writing and being active ICly? I have been here for years and have only been able to convince you into one thread, and I rarely see you involved in anything more than just holiday events. I know it’s not because you lack for options of people to write with, because I can say with certainty that everyone on this site likes you, and if they don’t then I’d be asking them what’s wrong with
them that they don’t like you. The fact of the matter is that you are a very popular member here, but your presence on the site is almost entirely OOC. I don’t expect a response to these questions, they’re more points for your consideration and self-reflection than anything else. If you took more time and initiative to write with others, I can guarantee you would not be lacking for RP partners, and I unfortunately I can't take in your entire massive critique about increasing inactivity without bringing up that you could be helping fight that by being more active IC yourself.
If we’re going to build the activity back up on the site, then again each individual member
has to be responsible for their own activity. They
have to put the effort in. Activity is the one thing that is not, and cannot be, run by staff. Staff can make the effort to provide extra opportunities to others, but at the end of the day activity is run by the
members, and the members alone. And the only way it’s going to pick back up is if people stop worring about what’s going on with everyone else’s activity, and focus on doing their part.
Nekros wrote:Too many factions, imo. I think there needs to be a discussion with guilds and those who are currently active in maybe consolidating everyone down into a few unique guilds/factions + Guildless. Like, maybe 2 good, a neutral, and a dark. Because at the moment, there are 9 and is spreading our members plus guildless.
I don’t think there needs to be any consolidation. There is only one legal guild and one dark guild at the moment anyway, so literally impossible to consolidate those more than they already are. As for the independent guilds, those are the ones that are the most active right now. And as for factions, there’s only 3 of them, and aside from RK you can be a part of a faction and a guild at the same time, so that really should have no bearing on activity. Those mechanics are there to give people more options to customize their characters and immerse them in the lore.
That said, there do need to be
some changes/alterations to guilds and factions. The way they are currently set up was perfect when we had more members, but is less ideal with the smaller group we currently have. This is something the administration has already discussed at length, and much of that will be addressed as part of the upcoming patch. So, all I’ll say on this for now is that it’s not lost on us that there needs to be a pivot in this area and we have plans in the works.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I think I’ve earned a drink. And I think Nek is buying it for me. LOL
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