Ideas

So I had a few ideas for the site that might be cool for consideration.

The first is a new scroll. The name could be anything but let's go with Primordial Scroll. I imagine coming up with a IOTM lineage can be hard at times on the mods. With this scroll you get a upgraded Ancient Scroll. It has more freedom and more Effect Points to play with. Expensive, very expensive since it also comes with the freedom to make something tailored made vs whatever is made by the mod team.

The second idea for either the Curious Oddities Shop, IOTM, or both, is pre-made spells that have unique effects or more effects than normal. I image this would also be expensive as you're not only buying a upgraded spell but the slot for it.

The third idea is a new VIP perk. Maybe as you gain VIP rank status you also gain a % reduction in word count needed for non-event related jobs? Or heck, maybe for them too. Maybe at the highest VIP rank you get like a 50% reduction, which would be 10% per VIP rank. Lower if that is too high.

The last idea is a new purchase in the general store. Right now you can pay 200,000 jewels to opt out of having to train a magic. I think it would be cool if we could pay to opt out of having to do a thread for rank ups too. BUT only for alts if you have previously reached that rank before. So if you're on your 4th alt and you're ready for S rank. You could just pay X amount to skip the 3k words. Maybe have it be 100k per rank? 100k B rank, 200k A rank, 300k S rank.

Here is a mix of my own opinion and my view on the suggestions from a staff perspective:

1) The point of Item of the Month and Oddity Lineages is that they are pre-made around a set theme. Just like other Items of the Month and Oddities, they are limited in quantity and play around with the rules a little bit in ways other Lineages could not, making possessing one a rarity. Making Lineages of that kind available for players to design outside of the influence of Developers and Admins would not only defeat the purpose of Item of the Month and Oddity Lineages in their entirety, it would also possibly break the balancing of custom Lineages in general if they were available for design by everyone and make Ancient Scrolls completely obsolete. As both an Administrator and a member of the Development Team, I can tell you that this will not be implemented and this particular suggestion is denied.

2) We actually had the idea of creating pre-made spells for Items of the Month and Oddities which could be added to magics ~2 years ago, but we felt that this would take away from the creative process involved with creating and customizing one's own magic to one's liking. Everything else is already available in a pre-made format in the Items of the Month, and if spells, too, would be available for purchase, spells that were stronger or possessed unique and esoteric effects when compared to spells people can normally create, no less, I feel like that would clash with the spirit of magic creation as a whole. If people are interested in this, we can talk about implementing it as a future addition to Items of the Month and Oddities, but I would like to discuss this with more input first.

3) There will never be a way to buy word count reductions for jobs. That defeats the entire purpose of Forum RP on this website. If you find the word counts too hard to achieve, try gathering a group of people to RP with on larger jobs.

4) We also discussed removing exams, which serve a twofold purpose in their current state: Firstly, they present a way to check a player's EXP and make sure they understand the Job and EXP system while settling in on the site, and secondly, they are an opportunity for guild leadership to follow and interact with a player's plot for the particular character in question and for players to advance their personal plot or a guild plot as they increase in rank. That said, if people are opposed to exams I would take that feedback to heart, but, again, I would like to hear more input on this.

That's pretty much everything. I would like for people reading this to comment and let me know their thoughts. If there is no discussion by multiple people surrounding this topic, I'm afraid I will have to deny the suggestions where there is still room for discourse, as well.

Okie dokie, I'll add my thoughts as a normal member that's been around for a while.

Concerning an updated scroll. Joh already said this would be denied outright but I am still going to comment on it from my member perspective. As IOTM and Oddity Lineages started to become more of a thing and became more and more powerful I too always wanted an updated scroll because a normal custom lineage is no near the power level of an IOTM of an Oddity one. Can you make one be? Yes. Definitely. With drawbacks. That has always been my issue concerning IOTM and Oddities and not even with just the lineages. They tend to be super powerful, including having flat increases and multiple things that I don't think would ever be approved with a general custom lineage, but lack the drawbacks. Sorry to say, but I don't think they're anywhere near balanced, and allowing for people to have an updated scroll wouldn't break any balance that hasn't already been broken with IOTM and Oddities. As for the ancient scrolls being obsolete, there are still people that use antique scrolls. People will still use ancient, especially if that's all they can afford or want to spend.

But here's where I agree with Joh. IOTM and Oddities are meant to be unique and I do think it would defeat the purpose of IOTM and Oddities as far as lineages are concerned. Would I like an updated scroll? Definitely. IOTM lineages do not fit with my character lore and I would like one that does while also being able to compare (without drawbacks) with the IOTM and Oddity Lineages. Should there be one? Probably not. However, I also don't think IOTM and Oddity versions should be as powerful as they are either.

Concerning premade spells. I feel like if spells were added to IOTM and Oddities that is pretty much all people would buy and they'd never bother with the magic creation process. This has already happened in regards to Unknown Keys. Why bother using summoning magic outside of claiming you have a solitary summoning magic for the benefit when you can just use Unknown Keys that are vastly more powerful and second only to Zodiacs? But Samira, there's no way someone will claim every single spell in IOTM to fill a whole magic let alone three of them! Doesn't mean someone won't try to the point a rule is made after it happens. My final thoughts on that are that magic is a big part of the site whether it is stat-based or statless. I'd rather people be able to be creative with it, balanced, and working with the same rules instead of slapping IOTM ones in there that are based on things that would not normally be approved in the grading process.

Concerning word count reductions through VIP. No. Huge definite no from me, and I would slap you from across the screen if I could for even suggesting this. I kid. Sort of. I admit the suggestion triggered me. Why am I so against it? For a couple of reasons. The first is that the word counts have been lowered so much over the years that lowering it anymore is just trivializing any kind of progression left on this site. You may as well remove it altogether. Secondly, the suggestion was made with VIP in mind. Word Count reduction is massively powerful because jobs and completing their word counts is how you get access to the higher ranks and rewards. This would be very unfun for those without the means to get VIP and I really don't think they should be so disadvantaged.

Concerning exams, I wouldn't mind this one. It'd be optional and still allow for those that want to do exams be able to do so. My personal opinion is I think exams are pretty much meaningless these days for me. I'd even say as a whole since several times throughout the years I just see people use the first 1000 words or so in a thread they already had going as an exam, which is their way of also basically skipping it that's within the rules. I don't consider that much of an exam that suddenly initiates a character to that rank, so, in my view, exams essentially have lost their meaning over the years and the mechanic is there just because it is.

I will also say that I don't care about any interaction for exams to the point I have considered asking staff to give me the exam everytime or just making every new character I create guildless and switch them into a guild after they hit S. I also think it pointless to contact an ace or gm to give the go-ahead to do the exam if you're just asking for personal plot. It's an unnecessary step that can take several days to get done due to irl and other things, assuming it hasn't been forgotten outright. I usually just want to get the exam done asap and move on. I don't find them fun or rewarding in any way anymore, (I've already done this from D-S twice and working on a third. The first time was fun even with higher word counts, after that it's just a chore to me), and I would gladly spend jewels or whatever to skip them. Which honestly, this site does need more jewel sinks anyway and this could be a decent one. I do think it should work like the C rank exam though so staff can still check things over and confirm that you have reached that rank.

(This is Esper, just on my main account right now)

1) I see the points that have been made. I figured if it was limited to IOTM or Oddities that it would be restrictive enough. The idea was also to make it easier on the staff so they don't have to come up with new lineages. However, now that I reflect I don't think that would be the case because you'd still have to grade whatever was posted! First suggestion DENIED lol :)

2. I fully agree with wanting creative freedom to be in the hands of the players but I didn't see it being that far from IOTM lineages when I thought of the suggestion. I also wouldn't want someone to have a bunch of super powered spells just because they have the jewels for it. In my mind I was thinking it be something similar to a one spell per person ever kind of thing to limit it from getting out of hand. That was if it had support. Maybe I should have been more clear about that in my suggestion.

3. I actually don't follow the points on this. I feel someone can make a solid story without the need for massive walls of text. Plus some people just aren't as creative as others. With me personally. It's not that I struggle with the word count, but that I struggle with feeling as descriptive as others without just adding a bunch of fluff. Then again I've always been better with my oral skills. It's why I like being a DM in D&D and ran a successful west march to completion of the storyline (with the help of other amazing DM's). That said, I fully respect that I and defintally the minority in this lol so I accept your virtual slap with grace (runs and cries /hugs)

4. I don't have any new thoughts further than my first post on this.

Short version: Joh and Samira basically summed my thoughts more or less to a tee.

But, in order to actually put a little effort into my response, I'll expand a bit.

1. I want to first start off by saying, as one of the head developers for the site, while writing up items for the IotM is certainly work, it's work that I personally enjoy. Plus, there really is no need to worry about taking said work off of staff's plates here because the only actual staff member that is on the Development Team is Joh. Mythal and I are technically staff as the head developers of the Dev Team, but we don't perform most of the day to day staff functions, so we're really more kind of psuedo staff that have a lot more time on our hands to focus on special items and events without having to worry about everything else. But everyone on the Dev Team is there because they enjoy putting the work in and nearly the entire team is non-staff members.

That being said, I agree with Joh on this scroll suggestion being a hard no. To follow up on some of Samira's comments, IotM items already occasionally break some of the rules, and we have to make sure not to saturate the site with too many overly-broken things because that is a quick way to make these more powerful items... well, not as worthwhile. Plus, custom lineages already receive 10 effects, which is more than enough to do some good stuff with. While an IotM lineage may every once in a while have one or two cool features that are a bit overpowered and rule breaky, for the most part nearly all of them follow the same formula with just a couple things here or there to make them unique. Most everything else could theoretically be done in a custom lineage as that system currently stands. So yeah, I'm a hard no on that.

2. Leading into some of what I said above, I'm also not a fan of the spell idea for IotM. If you want my detailed thoughts on that, go back and reread that portion of Samira's post a second time because she basically hit the nail on the head for me on that one.

3. WC reductions.... yeah, also absolutely not imo. This is a writing site. Like the entire point is to be writing, and earning rewards based on your writing. Having something that reduces the word count requirements literally defeats the entire purpose of being on an RP site. And while I understand that perhaps some people are not as creative as others, that doesn't mean that we should make it easier. That means that they should be rising up to the challenge and working to improve themselves, not looking for ways to coast by on requirements that are already quite reasonable and lenient. Plus, as someone who has gone through up to Z, sacrificed all of my hard earned EXP just to start over again from D+ and make my way back up to Z+ with increased EXP requirements to meet at each rank.... yes, I agree with Samira: On a personal level, that is an extremely frustrating suggestion to have someone make. She, Mythal and I were practically in an unspoken race to be the first to make it to Z+ (Can we acknowledge that? It was a good time, we had a blast and we hope Samira did too LMAO) and all three of us busted our asses, so lowering those expectations in a "pay to win" fashion is both broken and frustrating to think about.

4. As far as exams, I like them personally and they are not difficult. The worst one is only 3k words and then you literally never have to do them again (for that character). That being said, I can't say I disagree with Samira that it wouldn't be a bad way to add another spot to dump jewel back into the economy. But that being said, it's also a good way to get some good character development so skipping exams would seem like a sad idea to me because you're missing out on good story opportunities if you do. But, I wouldn't be against buying your way out of written exams as long as you still go through at least the application process so staff can make sure the EXP and stuff is gucci. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have an opinion one way or another on this one, I just think it's silly to miss out on RP opportunities, and it's a change that really isn't necessary. Maybe I'm just a plot slut. (I am)

I'm skipping the first one because it's been denied and frankly, I'd have nothing constructive or positive to say about it.

To the second point, I can see why one would see the convenience of having spells added to the IOTM and Oddities. It offers the chance for have a spell that might be, arguably, more powerful or more interesting than one person has come up with so far. But I have to agree with Joh and Samira on this and speak to your point; doing this, we'd most likely have to limit it to a certain number of purchasable throughout one's character's existence. Plus, in a manner of speaking, we already are providing pre-made spells for the populace via the items as they, more often than not, are created with active spells in mind rather than the usual passive effects that a lot of people opt to, myself included. Plus making magic is all about your creativity, your imagination -- the system provides a lot of flexibility to make spells how you'd like, or at least in the realm of your preferred idea. If Joh thinks its worth trying out, I'll go with the flow but overall, I don't think this is entirely necessary.

Samira and Joh both were very kind when it came to the word count suggestion and, in the spirit of not causing a flame war, I will be as well. The word counts have been lowered once or twice since my tenure here and that's only a few years -- less than half a decade. And to be frank, I don't think they ever really needed to be. Are the higher ranked jobs requiring a lot more effort? Absolutely but the EXP and jewel earned multiply along with that requirement. Those high numbers can be daunting but the payoff is worth it. Sometimes it takes more time and work than one expects but one shouldn't always be concerned about power leveling to H rank and above in a short amount of time anyways.

Plus it adds in the complication of suddenly everyone who joins the site and throws some money can be speeding past others who are grinding hard for words and getting EXP the old fashioned way. It creates an atmosphere of privilege beyond what is already there, considering there's already VIP items and non-VIP items you can buy that give bonuses to EXP, sometimes equaling out to a high quest rank EXP. Suddenly the site would become pay to win and that's something I, and I'm sure a lot of others, will fight against tooth and nail. If someone is trying to 'win' at an RP site, they are living their life wrong. Sorry but this seems like a shortcut to power level at the expense of your wallet rather than effort. As Joh said, if the word count proves to daunting to people, they should reach out to the community and take on jobs as groups. It lowers your requirement and truthfully helps you interact with people more. That's better than making them dislike you because you can buy your ranks.

The exam suggestion is an interesting one. To Joh and Samira's points, the exam system has its benefits and its downsides. The positives are, mostly, being able to verify the character's earned EXP and make sure they are properly at the level they need to be, along with understanding how the system works. This system has changed several times over the past couple of years and frankly, I'm not such a fan of the new system. I don't like that I, the writer, sometimes need to run the calculations on my EXP and spend up to multiple hours verifying each quest and the EXP I got for it, especially since it's all congealed into one big number on the side of our profile rather than put as a hard number on the Job Finish subthread. If the approving staff stated how much EXP was earned from turn ins, it would probably annoy me less.

But and it is a very big but, I also understand it. Dozens of times, people have discovered the EXP in their profiles are wrong or they can't locate why they have the right amount and it has actually helped that they are doing the calculations themselves. Second, staff handles so many numbers already, checking and double checking our works to verify we're following all systems correctly, especially when it comes to magic. It would be selfish to just expect them to find all the right EXP for exams while we sit there, doing nothing.

I'm a little off topic. I agree with Samira that if a character is just doing personal plot, I don't think that entirely requires an Ace or the GM to jump in and reiterate "Okay go do plot stuff." But I can say that something I've personally done for some of the people in the Rune Knights that want exams, they want prompts. And rather than just giving them a stark quest fetch or kill quest, I will give them an actual RP interaction. I provide them with a personalized interaction with Mythal (my Rune Knight co-GM) with them receiving their orders. That way, it adds a little mystique and flair to their prompt and, what I always hope, gives them some juice to come up with some truly creative and delightful exams. Does it need to be like this? Absolutely not. But I agree with Joh that they can be used to help people interact with their Aces and GMs. So I guess... I dunno, I'm on the fence on this one? I guess I don't really care what happens with them either way. But figured I'd jump in with a perspective of my own, using experience I have garnered.

That's all I got. Ktnx

I'm only going to comment on the last idea since that's the one where there doesn't seem to be a consensus for.

We already have a skip option for the C rank one and when you look through the approved ones, nine out of ten people have taken that option. I think that says a lot about how players in general feel about exams and I honestly believe that we should have the same option for all ranks. If someone want to do one? Fine. If not? Well, that's fine too. I'm not suggesting that we scrap the EXP checking and approval parts though, mind you, they should definitely remain.

I also believe that this should not have a price tag attached if it's implemented. There is no price tag on the C rank skip and that should remain constant throughout. A privelege for everyone, not just the wealthy few.

Medeia wrote:We already have a skip option for the C rank one and when you look through the approved ones, nine out of ten people have taken that option. I think that says a lot about how players in general feel about exams...

A real quick interjection for this one, while I have time before my day gets hectic: I don't know why everyone else skips the C one, but thought it was worth noting that the only reason I personally skip it is because it's only 500 words and that's so small of a WC to me that it's not really worth writing because 500 words isn't enough to get really anything done RP wise. However, the significantly larger WC requirements for B, A, and S are much easier to work with, and I personally enjoy them. Just thought I'd throw that out real quick just in case that's an opinion others share.

Medeia wrote:I'm only going to comment on the last idea since that's the one where there doesn't seem to be a consensus for.

We already have a skip option for the C rank one and when you look through the approved ones, nine out of ten people have taken that option. I think that says a lot about how players in general feel about exams and I honestly believe that we should have the same option for all ranks. If someone want to do one? Fine. If not? Well, that's fine too. I'm not suggesting that we scrap the EXP checking and approval parts though, mind you, they should definitely remain.

I also believe that this should not have a price tag attached if it's implemented. There is no price tag on the C rank skip and that should remain constant throughout. A privelege for everyone, not just the wealthy few.

You've got a point about skipping the C rank exam. I took the option to skip it since day 1 on my time on the site because I could. I don't even remember what the original word count requirements for the C rank exam were. Serilda does have a point too that I didn't consider until I read her reply though. It's small and the fluffier writers can sneeze that amount out before even starting the exam so it's kind of difficult to work with and the words may as well just be used for an exp thread instead. We won't know the actual statistics until we actually see something like that implemented. If it's free, I predict quite a number of people will skip it. If it has a price tag on it then there will likely be people still doing the exams because they either don't have the funds to skip it or they don't want to spend it. Other than the ones that just want to do it for plot reasons, of course.

I mainly want to add my thoughts on the price tag version of it though so if staff consider this suggestion they can get a more concrete view of my opinion.

I don't see this as a bad thing. As I mentioned previously the site could use some more jewel sinks. I am only "wealthy" because I have absolutely nothing to spend with these jewels other than buying everything up that's left in oddities to hoard it in my bank, and those prices are actually very cheap compared to what I actually thought they should be when everyone started to accumulate tons of jewels suddenly due to rule changes and bonus stacking. I always purchase my magic training, I have two characters with their max equipment other than the special IOTM stuff, I have 15 linked pets in my summoning as well as linked equipment for my requip magic, I have bought way too many Lacrima Coffees to count, etc etc. This isn't even me just hoarding jewels over the years. I have spent millions time and time again. It's just the prices in the shops are pocket change compared to what you can earn from doing higher rank jobs and jewel bonus stacking. Over 300% or more depending on what you have and do during the turn in? Yeah, I do not want to hear of any high ranking mages being broke and can't afford anything newly implemented when this is easily possible.

One issue I see is that people just aren't completing jobs to earn them and are usually posting on multiple characters when they have time for funsies or are one of those that pretty much just lurk around the site for 3 months until an activity check kicks in. If you're consistently active and turning in stuff (unless you just use events which usually offer zero jewels), you're going to have the jewels necessary to skip exams if you want, especially if Esper's version is implemented where you have to do the exams on at least one account to unlock the ability to skip. No one is saying that this even has to be expensive in the first place either. Heck you can pay to skip a magic training with one single 10Y without jewel bonuses. This means, if Esper's numbers are used, you can pay to skip some exams already as well.

I will also be blunt, assuming I haven't been already and I apologize for my poor word usage if so, but you can also use your logic on magic training to basically remove the necessary cost for that as well. This and that are practically the same. You either have the jewels to purchase the training or you write the words. I don't see why exam skips have to be treated any differently and be free for everyone. It'd be a way to remove jewels from the economy and give the "wealthy" something to spend their jewels on when they create alts. Writing the exams also wouldn't be any different than they are now so it's not like anyone would be punished for being unable to purchase a skip. It's a purchase like everything else on this site and not something that is required to enjoy your time here. Maybe my gamer perspective is leaking into how I view site-related things here. I don't know. But, I don't believe this or anything else should be free, especially when earning the currency on this site is very easy. It just requires a little bit of work if it's something you really want. Otherwise, take the free option. It's there.

Serilda Sinclair wrote:
She, Mythal and I were practically in an unspoken race to be the first to make it to Z+ (Can we acknowledge that? It was a good time, we had a blast and we hope Samira did too LMAO) and all three of us busted our asses, so lowering those expectations in a "pay to win" fashion is both broken and frustrating to think about.

Off topic but did want to make a quick comment so you two do know. I had a ton of fun, especially on those last days. I even thought you two still had 1 100Y to go while I was on the last few thousand words of my final one. I was wrong and lightning speed typing became my superpower for that morning. Lol.

As a newer player I like the suggestion of it not costing now that I've read it. I also kind of assumed the point of the exams was more to show you know the rules a little. That's why I suggested only being able to have the option to skip them on alts. By that I meant skip the writing portion as I didn't really see the point in it. Yes this a RP site but I'd rather advance my plots on my own and go with the flow of what happens to me in events and jobs. Plus as someone pointed out. You can already be Guildless and just join a guild after S, if they'll take you.

Magicite wrote:As a newer player I like the suggestion of it not costing now that I've read it. I also kind of assumed the point of the exams was more to show you know the rules a little. That's why I suggested only being able to have the option to skip them on alts. By that I meant skip the writing portion as I didn't really see the point in it. Yes this a RP site but I'd rather advance my plots on my own and go with the flow of what happens to me in events and jobs. Plus as someone pointed out. You can already be Guildless and just join a guild after S, if they'll take you.

Okay, but that's the thing. You can advance your plots on your own, even with the exams. Most GMs and Aces are very lenient about how exams are approached. Most of the time, you can just ask them to assign you a "personal plot" prompt and you can just write X number words of whatever you want.

I don't know. On this particular topic -- as I said before -- I don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way, I just think it's a very silly thing to try and change or bypass. The biggest of the exams is only 3k words, which really is not a lot. I do see Samira's point about how it would be nice to have some additional money sinks because at some point once you've written enough threads most things you can spend jewel on are pretty easy to acquire, but at the same time the exam system as it is currently set up just feels like a really weird thing to single out and nitpick on when the current system is both simple, reasonable, and not overly demanding.

But I think I also have to admit, for the sake of being honest with myself, at this point I have a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth in regard to this thread. It really reads to me as just wanting to get lots of things and progress on the site while putting in as minimal work into earning those things as possible, and that just doesn't sit well with me. So for the sake of making sure I'm remaining as objective as possible on the matter, I'll probably hold out on speaking more on the topic of exams until someone else says something that sways me one way or another.

Serilda Sinclair wrote:But I think I also have to admit, for the sake of being honest with myself, at this point I have a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth in regard to this thread. It really reads to me as just wanting to get lots of things and progress on the site while putting in as minimal work into earning those things as possible, and that just doesn't sit well with me. So for the sake of making sure I'm remaining as objective as possible on the matter, I'll probably hold out on speaking more on the topic of exams until someone else says something that sways me one way or another.

Normally I'd ignore a comment like that but on the off chance others feel that way I'll simply say this. That is not the case at all. The first 3 suggestions don't even apply to me. I will probably never have the jewels to afford certain things unless I'm here for a very very long time. Even with me making a tiny bit on crypto lately my medical bills are insane so I can't afford VIP either. You read my intentions wrong.

The last applies to me, yes, but even then I probably wouldn't have had the jewels to sink into it. At least not on my current characters.

Alrighty, well, so much for that :'D
I'll think about what was discussed in this chat and attempt to craft up some additions based on the subject matter at hand. Still, since the original suggestion was largely denied, I will lock this and move this to denied suggestions.