Outright removal of the job system

Suggestion:


The outright removal of the job system.


The job system is ultimately detrimental to the health and longevity of this site as it closes everyone off and packages them into isolated cells and disconnects all player activity into noncannonical little zones away from everything else,  as no job is canon except in your own player history- if that,   as you get up to dozens of people doing the same thing you did.  


Having to register to do them,  having to wait for a custom job to be looked over,  having to stick only to those who were approved to go on it with you unless you wait to re-register someone else,  and the commitment involved.

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I recommend eliminating the system altogether.    In its place,  people register topics that they have already done themselves with whoever, whenever, and whatever.  


You finish an Open topic in which you and whoever you wish do something,   and then you go to a Rewards Center where you fill out a new Job Journal template where you explain what you've done,  why you think it's important or something that you can learn from in some way,
 who posted in the topic,  how many posts each person did (and their word count),  and a summary of what each person contributed.

Then whoever approves the job, as staff would have to do anyway,  skim the topic and determine the individual rewards.    Where a topic might have been comparable to a 100year for one participant,  it could have just been comparable to an A or even D for another.  This means that individual ranks could get their relevant rewards while the rewards could still "cap" to a soft limit for lower ranked participants.

NO MAJOR WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH THIS.    All the information on jobs are already available,  and all you would do as a reviewer is match the rewards and effort to up to the highest possible job default that the player of their rank would normally be able to do.
Standard job rewards are used,  you just play a matching game to match rewards with a request.


Along side this change you can also add in new variables:

Contested: Another player character is actively using their own character to try to claim an objective directly in contest with another player character's objectives.  Such as:  Saving a Noble,  vs killing the noble.  Or it could be a race to see who kills the noble first,  who steals a gem first,  ect.
Suggested benefits:  All players involved get an overal 10% increase in rewards.  The victorious party gets an additional 20%

Opposed: Another player or player character is passively serving as an opposition to other players,  but they do not have the same goals or target.  Basically a player just manages the threats that other players face,  without having much risked themselves.
Suggested benefits:  Similar to contested but with no "Winning" party exactly, as the objectives are not mutually exclusive,  all participants get a 10% increase in rewards.


Series / Arc:  Multiple topics share the same overall goal and underlying plot development that has progressed over the course of these multiple topics.   The claim should explain what and why each topic is relevant and how they fit together. The reviewer could say that some of the topics don't fit well enough and wont apply to the total.
Suggested benefits:  Add a 5% increase in rewards per topic that adds to the story arch.   A massive 20 topic story arch would apply a 100% increase in rewards,  meaning you'd essentially gain the rewards from each topic a second time in one "Series" bundle once the arc is approved.    










I believe that this will make the site more active and generate more widespread involvement as players would be able to casually join and interact with whoever they want whenever they want and in whatever setting or goal they want.  If Player A wants to do X with player B,  they can just go do it as soon as they feel like it.   When they're done they can register the topic for rewards matching with an appropriate default job level's equivalency.   Player A might get more than Player B due to doing things more in line with a higher ranked job while Player B didn't do much,  or vice versa,  or perhaps they contributed on the same level.


The problem with the job system now is how it seems to close everyone off and limit options.
It should involve no more work than the system does now,  but additionally it frees up time away from approving custom jobs and approving people to go on jobs in the first place (anyone can just up and go when they feel like it,  or not even think about it and just go DO something and then think "Hey, this was a good topic,  I should post it for rewards review" after it is done.

Sounds a lot like you want custom jobs, aka socials that give you exp and jewels.

I am certainly not against this. Especially the series/arc proposal.

I'm with Eris on this. A rewards thread would be particularly charming.

The issue with this is we already have an alternative which is custom jobs. Yeah it might take about a day to get the job approved but it really gives everyone the freedom they want to do a job.

Also jobs are done by those who take them and they have all the control over that job. It'd up to others on the site to acknowledge those feats that the person might have done in that job.

With that said if people see this as something they all want then it is something that can be worked on and made. It won't be hard to implement but it really is pretty much the same thing we have now with some additions.

Cirven wrote:The issue with this is we already have an alternative which is custom jobs. Yeah it might take about a day to get the job approved but it really gives everyone the freedom they want to do a job.

Also jobs are done by those who take them and they have all the control over that job. It'd up to others on the site to acknowledge those feats that the person might have done in that job.

With that said if people see this as something they all want then it is something that can be worked on and made. It won't be hard to implement but it really is pretty much the same thing we have now with some additions.

It really, really isn't.


Custom Jobs are a bad "alternative" and they can take a long time to get approved, then you have to get your attempt approved, and then it's restricted to those who signed up for it with you. It isolates you with glass walls you have to move around, hoops you have to jump through.

By the time you're finally approved the spirit and drive you felt for an idea before often dies. And then you're also trapped into that topic until you finish meeting the requirements and you have to match the objectives you predetermined. As opposed to just writing and exploring the situation as you go and as the topic might evolve as new players hop in or out.

As opposed to simply making a topic with whoever you want whenever you want, immediately when you feel like making it with whoever feels like joining then or later as the topic is already ongoing, the current job system is a dead weight and makes the site feel... lifeless and exclusionary.


I would like to see those walls removed so that the RP can flow more smoothly, seamlessly, and openly.

The only problem with this suggestion is that it is Scary. It's such a drastic change that it's most likely going to get shot down before it's ever really considered as a possibility.

Marceline Anicetus wrote:Sounds a lot like you want custom jobs, aka socials that give you exp and jewels.

There are quite a lot of forums that rely on systems exactly like this and the freedom they offer makes for a very fun experience. I've pushed for variations on the job system many times to make it so members didn't have to follow a scripted thread and could actually RP with people who are lower ranked than they are and make it worth their while. (I use the term scripted loosely, because I know someone will come at me with a "You can go about the job however.") But that's missing the point of this suggestion, which is to allow for spontaneous actions and events to occur within a job/thread and make it matter to a character's progression without the hassle of filling out a template with all of the scripted information, having it looked at & editing it and then having it approved and then gathering up the teammates and doing it, but only posting this much because of post requirements and trying to finish it as fast as possible because you want dat exp.

"Hey lets do this thing!"
"Sure that'll be fun! I'll get started on making the job and we can start some time next week!"

having to register a job isn't even the entire issue. A rehaul of the current job system to allow for greater variation would do, if done right. Post requirements & restricted members & teams.

Currently, I'm S-Rank and I'm desperate for a teammate to take advantage of the 50% exp boost. However, I'm the only S-Rank in my guild and as a Legal mage I can't form teams with anyone outside of my guild, so I'm stuck going on missions where the rewards are negligible for me, so going on Jobs for me right now is a bit of a waste of time unless I do them on my own, and even then I can't get any exp boosters. I feel pretty isolated in my Guild, but I don't want to leave. However the job system as is really isn't my friend.

I'd love to just start a thread with someone, even a bunch of D or C-Ranks and do something epic with them and be rewarded justly for my own experience level. So for my personal situation, this suggestion is pretty Golden.

Just for the record in case anyone thinks it:

Yes it does make sense for higher ranked players in the same topic to get more experience. It might be the same topic but everyone isn't doing the same things or contributing the same amount. You could have a few S-ranks in a topic with a bunch of D-ranks and while the d-ranks are doing their own things and it can be just as important even, but it's the S-ranks who are keeping some giant monster at bay and taking the heavy hits that would kill the D-ranks.

And while it'd definitely be recommended for staff to read the topic for themselves (Which I understand most people on this site don't like doing in general, even in topics they are replying to), it isn't wholly necessary (though skimming would be a nice minimum) because it is summarized in the Request itself what everyone has contributed to, which means even if just skimming you know what to skim for to double check if necessary.

It's also not intended to be overly strict and authoritarian, but a free spirited and casual experience. So it shouldn't be sharply regulated, meaning it shouldn't matter if you undercut or overpay the job rewards, all that matters is that the system is quick, efficient, and fun.

From someone who is going to be coming up on his 100th job sooner rather than later, I can't tell you how many jobs I feel restricted in because it requires two Wizards of the same rank that I want to do but can't because much like Shen, I'm one of the few A rank or higher members of my guild. I'd love to write with others of lower rank but at this point it doesn't do me as a person any good. I could do those lower ranked jobs and get the jack side of crap for xp, and the lower ranked Wizards would get a bit of xp. Maybe a little more because I went with them but then it seems like either I do all the heavy lifting as a character or none at all. Nobody has fun that way, plus having some jobs where a pair legal and dark guild members are at odds is something I would love to do but haven't because on this site, doing socials and events are really pointless. Nothing is cannon and nobody really matters outside of what is going on with your character. It's always bugged me too. I'm not saying that the entire job system needs to be changed but it would be nice if we could make something like little mini events for a few writers who want to do stuff together outside of a normal job and not feel like we are just wasting our time. This could be what the entire dungeon system is even since that thing has been dead since I joined the first time around. At this point its just a wasted sub board. I don't know if I agree with everything Eris says in her points but clearly something should actually be done about how non welcoming the job system is for writers working together. Really its sad that most of the time we only all try to write when an event ran by staff comes around that everyone tends to end up complaining about and dropping half the time.

https://www.fairytail-rp.com/t5788-job-dice-rolling-mentor-enemy-spawning-replacement-reinforcements-and-bonus-rules wrote:Jobs are completely under the control of the people doing the job. The story of how everything happens, sometimes the names of characters, the fighting(if there is any), and more is all up to the people completing the job.

There are numerous times, where I've changed the name of the target I'm supposed to fight ect... or how the story really went down. Jobs are only as restricting as you let them be. Custom jobs don't take that long as so long as everything abides by the regulations. Just throwing this out here as a member of the site, not a staff member.

Raiza wrote:

https://www.fairytail-rp.com/t5788-job-dice-rolling-mentor-enemy-spawning-replacement-reinforcements-and-bonus-rules wrote:Jobs are completely under the control of the people doing the job. The story of how everything happens, sometimes the names of characters, the fighting(if there is any), and more is all up to the people completing the job.

There are numerous times, where I've changed the name of the target I'm supposed to fight ect... or how the story really went down. Jobs are only as restricting as you let them be. Custom jobs don't take that long as so long as everything abides by the regulations.  Just throwing this out here as a member of the site, not a staff member.  

Yes,  so do I.  My jobs almost don't even resemble the job description.   But that's really not relevant to my points or the benefits of an open rewards system vs a job system;  being able to do anything, anytime, with anyone,  anywhere,  immediately when you feel like doing it rather than waiting forever because you have to make the job,  get the job approved,  get your request to do the job approved,  and then you're hard-lined / railroaded to do what the job says you need to do,  regardless of how you do it or how you flavor it you're still predetermined.  


If I wanted to just up and do a job with Almy or Ardere,  I'd have to make a custom job first, which can take anywhere from an hour to a week,  then get it approved which can take anywhere from an hour to over a year (Yes,  over a year),  and then do the job as written.  How you go about it is up to you but the job requirements are set in stone.     Then when you're on the job you have to extend it to meet certain requirements until you can move on.   


With this you just up and do, no waiting.   Jump right ahead and get to posting while spirits and motivations are high and then submit the topic for rewards after it is done,  with the summaries of what occurred and who contributed what and how many posts/words they have in the topic.   

And then even if you didn't do enough for say a 100 year mission perhaps you still did an S-ranks worth of work / contribution,  so you got S-rank experience instead of 100year,  you failed to meet your goal but you still got rewarded for a topic you were able to just up and do at the drop of a hat with whoever wanted to get involved,  even people who read it and though "I'd like to join that" and they did,  because this system is independent of who joins when or how. 


All that matters is the summary submitted post completion and the staff who decides what value to give out to the individuals who participated,  skimming through the topic in question to verify statements if it is needed.

I like this idea of an "open world" feel as well. I also want to feel like I am immersed in this site's world and feel like my character is doing something to directly affect the world and other player characters naturally. Certainly, the job system functions and that is fine. However, it is just as wise to know when something needs to change. The benefit for staff in regards to this is that there are plenty of people on the site who are already welcoming this kind of change. Sure, it will take some time to organize and then release officially but you, the staff, have a legion of people here fully willing to assist in making this work.

In the short term, yes, it may be a bit tough to handle. As staff members though, you must consider the overall longevity of the systems you put out. As it stands, job systems in general are old-fashioned and they adhere to a more strict environment whereas now people want a change. So why not then give it a try? Work with us the players and make a system that will work and still provide an organized way of handling rewards, requirements, etc.

After all, the point of being here writing is to have fun correct?

I could also make a case for why our magic is even getting graded at this point when we don't have pvp. Allowing for something like what Eris is suggesting gives a reason for the magic being graded to begin with, weather we pvp in jobs made or not.

I'd love a more character arc based system that lets you do things as you go along. Set a required amount of words, threads, etc. based on how many times you've used it (increasing as you go along) with the event end goal having large implications for the character each time. It would be far more efficient at doing what players want the custom missions to do because the restrictions would be minimal and the approval process would come after the fact, rather than before. I've already seen it done before on a bleach site I used to play on so there is precedent if you need me to dig it out somewhere I'd be happy to find it

I like this idea, though I'm in the camp of keeping the job system too. My arguments for the job system are simple as they provide new folks maybe some topic focus, base ideas to augment (as a few of us already do with jobs), and it still provides a way to benefit the guilds as well. I like the idea of arcs or maybe gaining some exp from open topics as I've enjoyed a similar system in other locales, but I don't think it's going to cover everything either. I think it'll be greater for more open-ended and personal growth without worrying about everyone matching a specific word count (if they don't then they get less rewards or some such).

I'm also happy to see a bit more of a proposed idea since this is something that's been suggested multiple times, but with only minor ideas of execution. It'd be nice to see what the reward tiers might be since, as pointed out, certain ranks won't be able to physically and realistically put in as much effort as someone else with more experience, but I imagine they could still rack up decent exp over time. I'm not wholly sure about money as that might be more case-by-case since more spontaneous things might be "self-funded" or without a payer for one's efforts.

At the same time with the size of this site I think there'd need to be some sort of restriction too on how much or what someone could send in for credit. Staff range in age and have various commitments (high school, jobs, college, etc etc) so there'd need to be some simple grading method, but as Eris stated the ability to skim and make sure someone's not just submitting a coffee date in the hopes of receiving a lot of rewards (unless a whole lot of craziness happens on that date, who knows, alien invasions happen when we least expect them). Maybe a person can only send in a topic a week or x number of topics a month (and before anyone complains about such notions lets remember how long jobs can sometimes take so it might be a moot point anyways). If you get stuff from one topic, but someone wants to send in another topic you're in then would you be okay not getting anything for that topic?

Overall I like the idea, I just think it might be better for it to work in tandem with jobs, and am a bit worried about people's potential patience towards such a system. Some folk get antsy over jewels.

I'm not sure if I really have much to say considering my lack of experience, but I really think this would be great, it would inspire people to work together, it would boost muse by a LOT, hell, with this system I might actually do stuff. Just putting my thoughts out here.

Im sort of on the inbetween here because I have tried doing a character arc system, but the problem is that I need to go through custom jobs in order to do it. The first thread i did was easy, but when I went to make the second job I had to go through three different approvals, and then actually find enough people to do it with since it was meant to be a 3 person job.

If I could just do it freely, it would be much easier and I would be able to skip the middle man and go straight to it. I could just grab a few people of whatever rank and whatever guild and start going.

But at the same time I really like the job system. It provides ideas, and a simple and easy way to get jumpstarted when you join the site or return to it.

I say we could keep the job system but add in a new system (which yeah does increase workload. Maybe theres a way around it.) like the reward system mention. That way new members could integrate easy, and older members could have more freedom. Maybe spending jewels for custom threads would be something, idk.

I am all for Eris' suggestion myself.