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    The tertiary elephant in the room

    The Geezer
    The Geezer

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    Lineage : Conqueror's Courage
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    Character Sheet
    First Skill: Grand Library
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    The tertiary elephant in the room Empty The tertiary elephant in the room

    Post by The Geezer 7th August 2016, 11:25 am

    I was going to post this in Shard's suggestion thread, where the quote is pulled from, but it has occurred to me it is largely tangential and in large parts a completely seperate idea. To keep Shard's suggestion on track I made my own

    Shard wrote:
    Aoi wrote:
    Shard wrote:
    Step 5. Give some examples of what tertiary magic can do as we are only told what it can't do and it seems like it can't do anything It's a cantrip magic... That's all it is. There's nothing more to it. Except that cantrips can do damage in a lot of games or can provide mild support. This can apparently do nothing it seems. Especially as you get one of each rank. So an S rank that makes sparkly lights seems a pointless waist of magic.

    Why does it require "Grand Magic," (the term used to describe SS-Rank in character rules) to cast cantrip magic? Why is anything cast by an SS-Rank even in the realm of cantrips? A-Ranks are qualified for Wizard Saint positions, positions give to be people who can "cause a cataclysm." Why is someone approximately twice as powerful as a causer of cataclysms casting cantrip magic?

    Seriously what the heck is up with that? If tertiary magic is to continue being the highly limited borderline useless thing that it is the rank requirement should be reduced to C-Rank at the least to match what it can do. Honestly C-Rank is a bit high for what it can do.

    Maybe instead we can go back to its original intent. When tertiary magic was making its rounds in the suggestion forums it was defined as a "Second secondary magic." Basically it was supposed to allow you to have two secondary magics. That's what people wanted, that is what everyone wanted. Instead we got "cantrips," in what was a clear, obvious and ugly attempt to make us shut up. Now if we went with this original intent system, S-Rank would be more appropriate.

    Make the reward match the quest. Either shorten the quest or raise the reward. I don't care which. I highly recommend raising the reward though.
    Eris
    Eris

    Lich of hell


    Lich of hell

    Moderator- Developer/GFX Artist- Regular VIP Status- Gain An Artifact- Quality Badge Level 1- Quality Badge Level 2- Quality Badge Level 3- Horseman- 11 Sinner- God Of Ishgar- Ten Wizard Saint Member- Guild Master- God Slayer- Demon Slayer- Dragon Slayer- Legal Guild Ace- H-Rank- S-Rank- Richie Rich- Rich- Veteran Level 3- Veteran Level 2- Veteran Level 1- Magic Application Approved!- Obtain A Secondary Magic!- Get A Pet!- Character Application Approved!- Complete Your First Job!- Obtain A Lineage!- Join A Faction!- Senior [500]- Player 
    Lineage : Devil's Conquest
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    First Skill: Sunset Eclipse - The Sandstorm GS
    Second Skill: Titan Eclipse • Devil Pact
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    The tertiary elephant in the room Empty Re: The tertiary elephant in the room

    Post by Eris 7th August 2016, 11:35 am

    Tertiary magic is a powerful plot device and a third aspect of power within a mage with the potential for significant effects effecting the IC itself or connecting whole guilds together.    


    My Tertiary is the foundation of Grim Heresy and beyond and is even more of a core aspect of Eris than my Primary or Secondary,  despite not being able to harm or support anyone in a fight.


    Tertiary magic is intended to be something that benefits an entire guild,  as it is outright recommended that guildmasters to make Tertiary magics that benefit their guilds,  a free third source of power that is not bound by normal necessity for milking out an advantage over others.  Where normally you'd think "X would be so much more effective but Y is fun and plotty" you now don't have X in the way,  neither do you have to sacrifice aspects of your intended character design for it.


    It's the magic of SS and H'ranks and the magic as a whole should represent that in the themes and allowances within it,  possessing it is similar to possessing a Mythical relic of some nature.   But if someone wants to punch someone's face in with fireballs it's best to keep to the primary and secondary magics. 




    It's main limitation is one's imagination,   provided they can free themselves from thinking how it would benefit them in a fight. 


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    The tertiary elephant in the room NvVyM98

    The tertiary elephant in the room CkggyrF

    Deception | Despair | Domination
    H 1 S 7 A 7+1 B 8+1 C 9 D 11
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    Shard
    Shard

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    The tertiary elephant in the room Empty Re: The tertiary elephant in the room

    Post by Shard 7th August 2016, 1:37 pm

    I've kind of stared at it for a while with several characters in mind and I just can't think of anything. At least nothing that would compliment any of my characters. Mind putting a link to your tertiary here Eris so we can use it as a reference? That in truth would be all i'd need is an example or two of what CAN be done with something that seems so limiting.


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    The tertiary elephant in the room HqzsHuT
    Eris
    Eris

    Lich of hell


    Lich of hell

    Moderator- Developer/GFX Artist- Regular VIP Status- Gain An Artifact- Quality Badge Level 1- Quality Badge Level 2- Quality Badge Level 3- Horseman- 11 Sinner- God Of Ishgar- Ten Wizard Saint Member- Guild Master- God Slayer- Demon Slayer- Dragon Slayer- Legal Guild Ace- H-Rank- S-Rank- Richie Rich- Rich- Veteran Level 3- Veteran Level 2- Veteran Level 1- Magic Application Approved!- Obtain A Secondary Magic!- Get A Pet!- Character Application Approved!- Complete Your First Job!- Obtain A Lineage!- Join A Faction!- Senior [500]- Player 
    Lineage : Devil's Conquest
    Position : None
    Posts : 1471
    Guild : Grim Heresy [GM]
    Cosmic Coins : 5
    Dungeon Tokens : 0
    Experience : 0

    Character Sheet
    First Skill: Sunset Eclipse - The Sandstorm GS
    Second Skill: Titan Eclipse • Devil Pact
    Third Skill:

    The tertiary elephant in the room Empty Re: The tertiary elephant in the room

    Post by Eris 7th August 2016, 4:49 pm

    I don't think that'd help much I'm afraid.  Must stuff tends to be confusing and linked with other things or works in ways not written because of interactions with other things. 


    It's Pact Magic.  I make contracts.  The important bits of relevance are I can communicate through contracts and towards people who speak my name,   read fantasies,  and implant visions on the willing.    The big thing is that everything is willing and/or requires action or inaction on the other party. 


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    The tertiary elephant in the room NvVyM98

    The tertiary elephant in the room CkggyrF

    Deception | Despair | Domination
    H 1 S 7 A 7+1 B 8+1 C 9 D 11
    d a m n a t i o n

      Current date/time is 5th November 2024, 7:56 am