To H-Rank… And Beyond!

This is an idea I feel as though may get shot down rather quickly, but after mulling over it for a while, I decided it might actually be a good idea, so here goes.

We have D-Rank, C-Rank, B-Rank, A-Rank, S-Rank, SS-Rank, H-Rank, and X-Rank. That's all fine and dandy, except once you hit H-Rank, there's nothing you can do to hit the hallowed X-Rank. Why? No one really knows… All we're told is that it is unobtainable, thought Event Bosses are almost always X-Rank. Now, the first part of my suggestion is this, either remove X-Rank, or make it obtainable my players. I understand it's supposed to be the "Holy crap you are basically a God." Level, but taunting us with Event Bosses that have it when we're not able to obtain it is just plain
mean.

The second part of the suggestion is just a tad bit more complicated, but here goes. Why does it have to stop at H-Rank? H-Rank Mages literally have nothing to do except gain Jewels, and there comes a point when they literally have nothing at all to do with said Jewels. So I propose the following.

We could add a "Level" System that is unlocked once you hit H-Rank, and it essentially uses EXP H-Rank Mages gain to bring up their melee damage, spell damage, and health. This would be calculate by either a linear function, or an exponential growth function, take your pick. I feel as though this could be useful for H-Ranks, since there comes a point where there's nothing they can do but look cool. While I do not have any specific functions created for Levels, I do HAE an idea as to how they could work. Levels would not have a cap, they would be infinite, since a function is used to calculate them. This means that some H-Ranks can be more powerful than others, depending how many jobs they do after they hit H-Rank. Also, similar to any RPG ever, levels would not cost the same amount of EXP each time. This would have to be calculated by an exponential growth function, so earlier levels have bigger EXP gaps, and later levels have smaller gaps.

Please say what you think of my suggestion, and feel free to vote on the poll.

Thanks in advance,
Brennan

Certainly an interesting idea. However, if the site had a few more plot elements to it and more people were into things other than jobs than H ranks wouldn't need anything extra to do as they would have stuff.

However, I would like to be able to spend EXP or something to get extra spell slots for my secondary for example.

Or even unlock a second secondary magic (rather than a tertiary that is pure utility)

I actually agree with you on both counts there. I feel as though the site NEEDS site wide plot, because I've seen several sites pull off a general plot while still allowing players to have their own personal plots, unlike FT-RP, because our events are generally random, and don't link to a larger plot.

As for the EXP thing, I threw this out there in hopes of getting SOMETHING done, so as long as something is done in regards to this I am satisfied.

I'm much rather have an EXP shop to spend EXP like a new currency to buy things that may be of use to H-ranks who've hit "endgame" and don't have much left if anything to spend jewels on.

Things that would normally be unobtainable elsewhere,   as well as things that may be obtainable with CC.

I'm with Siren on the idea of an exp shop. Something like another secondary magic that Zack mentioned could probably be one of the items available. X-rank should never be reachable for players though. It exists solely for plot NPCs to make them a challenge for multiple S/H rank mages.

^Seconded

Yeah I think people just used EXP shop as an example.

I'd say gaining enough exp to unlock extra stuff could be interesting.

I would not limit this purely to H ranks though. I would allow lower ranks to use EXP to unlock stuff. So they can choose to level up or they can choose to gain some new abilities or some perks or something. And the reason it prevents them ranking up is they have to master those extra skills enough to be classes as higher rank

The exp "shop" is still just that really. It works like a shop in how you unlock stuff with jewels at the shop. Though since we don't have any actual stat system, there's a bit less that can be done with it. But there are some other cool things you could do with it. One idea I have is for cantrips. Premade spells that are fairly common and easy to learn for anyone with magical abilities. They'd be not that useful for combat, but cool for RP. Simple stuff like making a light to see with as though you were holding a torch, lighting a campfire with a snap of your fingers, that sort of stuff.

Those could be cool and the site doesn't need stats lol.
However, we could unlock spell slots, extra types of magic, unique abilities, extra weapon slots(wouldn't be able to be traded for sig spells), extra sig spell slots etc

So… so far we've only had posts in support of an EXP shop/using EXP to unlock things, which I actually think would be really cool as opposed to the flimsy level system I thought up.

However, we have had seven votes entirely against any new system, but no posts explaining WHY a new system isn't needed.

So I'd like to please ask someone against a new system entirely to please explain WHY you are against this, just so we have more than opinion out there. Thanks in advance.

I haven't voted but I'll bite. I'm only slightly against this for a couple of reasons.

1. This is only a temporary setback for a permanent problem.
By adding a shop that allows people to extend beyond the limits we already have, how long do you think it'll take before we come to the next limit, and the next limit? Pretty soon we'll have a similar topic asking for more from this exp shop because people have been given extras, reached the point that they can go, and still won't feel like it's enough. Maybe a little extreme, but it seems to only make a temporary next level, which people who are at the highest point will easily be able to obtain it.

2. Previous sites where this has been a thing for me.
What I find refreshing about ftrp compared to other rp sites I've been on is that everything you make is customised. The previous site I was on for nearly 10 years had everything premade, prebuilt and there was a battle system that it was all based on. On top of that we had stats and everything, and of course over years of playing on 1 site you'd reach the max stat level (It took somewhere between 2-3 years non-stop), so naturally there was a point where you couldn't get any further.

Then we added a cap shop. You traded your training rolls you got each week for these points, and the points could be converted into things like more hp, better stats in 1 thing, removing certain items and abilities you may have picked up but couldn't get rid of, etc. And while it was all well and good it just brought everyone up to the same level again very quickly. The bar from being at the bottom to the top was raised, but it still didn't stop people from feeling exactly the same, other than the people who weren't capped now had 1 extra step before they were at the top.

And while the site now has a lot more of them for utility rather than power (better at finding certain things from the system, leaving topics quicker, etc), it still allows you to have extra spells, extra abilities, extra stats and it still isn't all that satisfying...

3. The struggle of where FTRP lies.
And when I mean this one, I mean does it says it's a battle site or an rp site with some battle features. Because if it's the latter then the exp shop hardly means anything as it shows that what we write is more important than stats and getting little extras. If H ranks can already take on an entire dark guild, and knock out their guildmaster, or laying siege to a kingdom then what's the point of having this store besides "because we can."

4. The problem with jewels.
And here lies the final problem to the site. Jewels are inflated so much, at this point people seem to be happy to throw away hundreds of thousands if not millions on anything. If artefacts were supposed to be something special, then between the raffles and people just seeming to have tons of jewels has made anything that's buyable essentially worthless. H ranks are going to have everything they need because jewel prices and rewards don't make any sense.

And if you don't believe me, then looking at everyone who is posting in this thread has anywhere above 300,000 jewels. Even I've benefited from this, and now all my item slots are full, I have 1 extra artefact slot beyond the max you can have. But none of it is going to make me feel any better, just like how giving H ranks more spells slots other than H rank spell slots are going to make them feel any better...

What if there was an EXP Shop, yes.    But.  You can't earn EXP at all after hitting H.  You have H-ranks worth of EXP at your disposal and all those IC experiences and struggles manifest themselves here in the end,  where you can spend that EXP in this End-Game 'shop' where you unlock these potentials. 


Everyone would be able to spend that EXP in their own ways,   that would ideally have clear tangible impact,   that further differentiates each H-rank character and provides a solid "Capstone" to give some of that satisfaction of hitting "the end" while diversifying the different H's in different ways,  each with their own advantages they chose to go with in unlocking this or that.

There's no Power Creep involved,  all H-ranks have the same amount of EXP to work with.  But it provides a more meaningful end result.

Lynn wrote:Okay so I'm going to be really open about this. I think having an EXP shop is totally ridiculous/stupid, because it doesn't make sense at all. EXP is experience and how do you use experience to buy things like money o-O? I mean you can use experience to do things that give you money (like if you have a lot of experience you are a high-ranker and you can go on high ranking jobs, get more money than the lower ranks and buy cooler stuff), but not use EXP to buy stuff. I like Brennan's idea about having a level system for the H-ranks and having the EXP needed to go up each level growing exponentially, but if we want them to have new cool H-rank stuff to purchase I suggest to have them set at really high amounts of jewels like the prices of guild assets so that they can still be interested in what's on the market.

EDIT: Okay so after trying to think around the idea of an EXP shop, I found out that instead of calling it a 'shop' and having people 'buy stuff with EXP', we could word it like 'using EXP to unlock cool stuff' which makes much more sense imo. And I forgot to mention these:
- H-rank level system having stat buffs: I don't support this.
- X-rank being a reachable position: Ditto. Because, quoting Kaia, "The point is that they're that powerful and unreachable to give everybody else a challenge." So yeah, pls leave them alone. What is the point of having enemies your level, right? You have nothing to be proud of when you beat them.]

I was about to write my viewpoint before I came upon this post. The section of Lynn's input that I highlighted in red basically summarises my feeling on the topic. Although I don't really feel strongly on the H-ranks having a level system because I think being H-rank is enough since you're regarded as the most powerful on the site anyway. An unlockable system by gaining more EXP after attaining H-rank is practically the same thing as having a levelling system because what do you do when you level up? You unlock new things LOL. So, I kinda disagree with having that system. However, I can see where Eris is coming from when suggesting an EXP shop. I do see Lynn's viewpoint, why it could be considered a little stupid since H-Ranks are awarded so much money from their respective high-ranking jobs because they have the ability to go on them in the first place and therefore can buy cool items with it, but H-rank exclusive items are something that isn't available to the site and having these "exclusive items" accessible to those whom have put the effort in to getting to H-rank might be a pretty credible system.

X-rank should be unattainable. It's not a rank designed to taunt players but a system designed to inspire cooperation. There should be no one in an event whom is able to fight on par with an event boss. Could you imagine someone in one of those big MMORPGs soloing those quests that require like 40 people in order to complete (I think I'm referencing WoW but I'm not an expert on the subject so feel free to correct me)?

Blood Plus wrote:
X-rank should be unattainable. It's not a rank designed to taunt players but a system designed to inspire cooperation. There should be no one in an event whom is able to fight on par with an event boss. Could you imagine someone in one of those big MMORPGs soloing those quests that require like 40 people in order to complete (I think I'm referencing WoW but I'm not an expert on the subject so feel free to correct me)?

This is not, however,  an MMORPG.   It's a story,  a world, a setting.   Different people playing different roles,  writing different stories,   with players filling those different roles.    

X-rank isn't even far from H,  it's just another step.  And just as an S-rank can math an H H-ranks can match X's.  

Nobody has to be a pawn to "The king" or whatever other lordly over-figure there may be in a setting.   The idea is that you work to eventually be that king.     To be that raid boss for others to struggle against or square off against other such bosses in steamy IC conflict and intrigue.


Otherwise there's just no point if everyone will always be inferior to whatever random NPC the staff decide to throw at the heroes rather than making use of and involving actual players.

Eris wrote:

Blood Plus wrote:
X-rank should be unattainable. It's not a rank designed to taunt players but a system designed to inspire cooperation. There should be no one in an event whom is able to fight on par with an event boss. Could you imagine someone in one of those big MMORPGs soloing those quests that require like 40 people in order to complete (I think I'm referencing WoW but I'm not an expert on the subject so feel free to correct me)?

This is not, however,  an MMORPG.   It's a story,  a world, a setting.   Different people playing different roles,  writing different stories,   with players filling those different roles.    

X-rank isn't even far from H,  it's just another step.  And just as an S-rank can math an H H-ranks can match X's.  

Nobody has to be a pawn to "The king" or whatever other lordly over-figure there may be in a setting.   The idea is that you work to eventually be that king.     To be that raid boss for others to struggle against or square off against other such bosses in steamy IC conflict and intrigue.

MMORPG. Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. This is indeed multiplayer, it is indeed online, and it is indeed a roleplaying game.

My point is what would be the point in events if you could have a singular player waltz into the event and single-handedly take on the boss? The truth is, there'd be no plot. Sure, the battle between that specific player and the respective boss would be of epic proportions but that'd defeat the point of an event entirely. The rest of the players wouldn't be able to engage. That's why I'm laying it out the way it is.

You don't need to be X-rank to be the King nor do you need it to be that one person everyone squares off against in an IC conflict. You said it yourself, X-rank isn't that far from H-rank, sure. It isn't. But the difference is still crucial. That event boss still needs to be more powerful than everyone else to present that daunting, slightly overwhelming situation that everyone loves to revel in. Being against the odds is what makes things exciting.

Say what you will. I don't think X-rank should be attainable for the reasons I presented above. You can be a cool boss that presents the same "against-the-odds" situations but there should always be someone more powerful. Someone to provide that same feeling on an even greater stage. On that note, I'm going to digress, these long-winded debates are not for me.

Just going to state my intention isn't to argue,  just keep opinions in the air.

Blood Plus wrote:
My point is what would be the point in events if you could have a singular player waltz into the event and single-handedly take on the boss? The truth is, there'd be no plot. Sure, the battle between that specific player and the respective boss would be of epic proportions but that'd defeat the point of an event entirely. The rest of the players wouldn't be able to engage. That's why I'm laying it out the way it is.

You don't need to be X-rank to be the King nor do you need it to be that one person everyone squares off against in an IC conflict. You said it yourself, X-rank isn't that far from H-rank, sure. It isn't. But the difference is still crucial. That event boss still needs to be more powerful than everyone else to present that daunting, slightly overwhelming situation that everyone loves to revel in. Being against the odds is what makes things exciting.

Say what you will. I don't think X-rank should be attainable for the reasons I presented above. You can be a cool boss that presents the same "against-the-odds" situations but there should always be someone more powerful. Someone to provide that same feeling on an even greater stage. On that note, I'm going to digress, these long-winded debates are not for me.

That goes both ways.  You don't need to be X-Rank to do things.   And individuals aren't the sole focus.

Situations are far more engaging.   A multitude of enemies,  and a threat.  This is why one dark mage is always going to be worth far more than a legal mage.   What matters isn't the origin as much as what they are doing.   The dark mage doesn't have to beat each legal mage to win,   the dark mage doesn't have to care about the casualties involved in fighting in the middle of a city.   Defeating an individual is hard as it is.   Stopping someone from destroying something however is extremely difficult.

On some occasions yes,  a giant monster is great for people to fight.   But they would not be X-rank.  They'd be unranked event monsters. But even then a dozen people fighting one thing is awkward, and it just works out better to have several threats that people can break up to fight, even 1v1 or at least as smaller groups.

I'm so coming in late here and the main point of having a stat boost for H ranks by gaining exp has basically already been shut down, but I want to remind people that if you do have EXP gains going towards special things for H ranks you start to make the lower level people feel down because now they feel like it's untouchable cause all the people who have been around longer or have put in tons of effort have hit that unobtainable level that everyone else wants to hit and are still growing. It's like having a ranking system that doesn't reset or have a cap, the top of the heap just keep getting higher and higher and higher, and everyone else will just remain trailing.

I would also like to remind some people that H rank is still mainly a VIP exclusive with only a select few individuals (as in one per guild besides the guild master) can get without throwing money at the site or having someone throw money at the site for them.