Limiter + Buffs

Speed Demon Zack wrote:In terms of the magic power this has been done. It is now in magic rules instead of character perks as that made sense. I've also converted it into a table instead of being 8 spoilers. I think it should be much quicker and easier to see. YAY! I MADE A SMART POST! Extra points for making it a table!
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Personally, i'd like to remove limiters. It seems its just a cheap way to get extra exp and the only draw back is you can't use spells of a certain rank. As so many people on here are physical it basically means nothing to them.

Combine it with team bonuses and the exp is far too easy to get in my mind.

I see, there are some more players who share this opinion. I personally use it to validate my character saying that he's too powerful to take it off, and the added XP is a reason for me to use it in general. As for the others that are opposed to removing it, they do it solely for the XP. I'd like to propose a compromise, an equilibrium if you will...

Reduce the XP bonus by half on both of them, but keep the handicaps.

C Rank Limiter +25% XP
A Rank Limiter +50% XP

doing this will allow those who worship the limiter to have their bonus XP, but  it won't be as good for XP farming. This will also make the die hard XP farmers want to save their money up for the 'Lacrima Milk' which is basically the current A Rank Limiter with no limitations. In this case, the limiter user has to work slightly harder for their XP. They'll probably whine and moan about it, but the argument can be pointed to "the other option was remove it entirely" and that should be enough to shut them the flop-tart up.
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As for buffs I do try to let it be known on anything I grade that it is only 25% to a user of that rank. However, i've added details to the rulesno words to sum up my level of happiness from this... so here.

:daiki:

Character Perks wrote:Signature Spells:


Basic signature spell rules
1. A  signature spell is a basic spell that the user has mastered and can effortlessly cast without any MP cost.
2. At C rank the user gains one free primary signature spell slot that ranks up with them, but will never exceed S rank.
3. Signature spells can only have one effect
4. A signature spell may have no cooldown, but this is at the discretion of the mod reviewing it. If the spell is deemed too powerful without a cooldown then one will need to be added.
5. Primary sig spells must relate to your primary magic.
6. These do not count towards the normal spell slot limit

Gaining more signature spell slots
1. Users are able to give up weapon slots to gain offensive signature spells
2. Users are able to give up armor slots to gain defensive signature spells
3. Spell slots gained in this way are limited to one per weapon/armor rank.
4. You cannot have two of the same rank of Signature spells
5. The freebie spell do not count towards these limits
6. You can still have a weak rank weapon/armor and have a signature spell of the rank
7. You have to achieve a certain rank in character to give up armor/weapons to gain those extra signature spells. See the below tables for this
Primary:


Rank of Weapon/Armor User rank Required Rank of signature spell gained
Weak C C
Strong B B
Legendary A A

Secondary Signatures:

1. A  signature spell is a basic spell that the user has mastered and can effortlessly cast without any MP cost.
2. At S rank the user gains one free secondary signature spell slot. This will be S rank and will remain as S rank
3. Signature spells can only have one effect
4. A signature spell may have no cooldown, but this is at the discretion of the mod reviewing it. If the spell is deemed too powerful without a cooldown then one will need to be added.
5. Secondary sig spells must relate to your secondary magic.
6. These do not count towards the normal spell slot limit

Gaining more signature spell slots
1. Users are able to give up weapon slots to gain offensive signature spells
2. Users are able to give up armor slots to gain defensive signature spells
3. Spell slots gained in this way are limited to one per weapon/armor rank.
4. You cannot have two of the same rank of Signature spells
5. The freebie spell do not count towards these limits
6. You can still have a weak rank weapon/armor and have a signature spell of the rank
7. You have to achieve a certain rank in character to give up armor/weapons to gain those extra signature spells. See the below tables for this


Rank of Weapon User rank Required Rank of signature spell gained
Weak S C
Strong S B
Legendary S A

Lady Red wrote:Signature Spells need to be eased up on.  They're weighed down by restrictions and limitations,  on top of that staff still regularly require cooldowns on them when they should not have them.  Cooldowns on a signature spell effect is purely a design choice for balancing out signature spells that are overly potent or are "Modes" like some people do.     Not only that but they're being overly held down by this "One effect" mumbo jumbo that gets selectively applied by some staff while other staff go extremely hard on what defines that one effect.After speaking with one of the other admins, I found out that a person can either have a passive or active signature. The reason many players are held to the rules of CD = Duration+1 is because we normally use an active signature spell. However, if we have a passive signature, like an auto shield that regenerates at the start of combat, but is 1 time use for that fight or something like that(feel a bit mecha, but example non-the-less) then either it will have no CD or, it will have a CD.

They're supposed to replace weapons for characters that should logically be weaponless,  pure-mages who'd be better slinging spells than swinging swords.   But the rules right now because signature spells are so heavily limited,  do not encourage their use because they are prevented from gaining their signature spells until high ranks, pushing them to still use weapons. Personally I use two swords, however, I have no offensive damage dealing magic. 2 Swords is plenty of offense, so for me I have mobility, defensive, and support spells. I also use my requips, but that's just for my armour which is also defensive in nature.


I think this could stem from miscommunication:  When I suggested signature spells I meant that you buy a Legendary+ weapon or some such and use that.  You don't give up the -potential- to use the weapon.     The cost to buy the weapon in question should be the only limitation on gaining a Signature Spell as normal for acquiring that weapon slot.   

If a player doesn't match the rank of the spell slot that could be gained,  then they simply gain a spell of a lower one until such a time as they could use the higher one. I thin the reason they made it so you give up the ability to have the weapon entirely is because if I could gain +1 signatures for having an L+ weapon, and I have 2 actives on my weapon, I got 3 free spells. 1 spell is the signature, which will go up to A Rank and the L+ weapon costs less than the spells slot, and it doesn't use MP. 2 slots for when I bought my other L+ weapon to fill the weapon slot, and those also go to A Rank, and cost no MP.

Lexa Grimoire wrote:
For making the trade of a weapon for a sig slot, why not make it so the signature maxes at S rank for an L+ item, and maxes at A rank for an S+ item? Weak can stay at C Rank. Also, do away with the single effect clause... If I were a lightning mage, and I slam you with a lightning bolt for rank damage, I don't see why that blast of electricity wouldn't paralyze you, or slow you down.

Also, I understand that CD = Duration +1. But if I casted a spell that my body is used to casting... my character is 100% used to feeling their magic power being used in that manner, why is it taking just as long for my body to recover from using that spell? I bike everywhere IRL, and when I was a kid I could barely bike up a hill, now I can bike 10miles and keep going. In other words, Biking is my IRL signature. I don't require as much of a CD as I did when I was learning to bike. I think that for signatures that are active, if should be: CD ≤ Duration. If less than for an active, then it's Duration - 1 = CD. If that were the case, I wouldn't mind only having 1 effect... I seriously wouldn't mind it at all because that 1 effect could be used more often than my 2 or 3 effect spells.

However, if you're gonna keep the CD rule, then please for the love of god, remove " A signature spell may have no cooldown, but this is at the discretion of the mod reviewing it. If the spell is deemed too powerful without a cooldown then one will need to be added." from the rules. It's misleading, and it doesn't mention a thing about the CD being dependent on if the signature is Passive/Active, and if the spell has a single effect like "Deals rank damage" then It's not worthy of being beat with the 4 post CD stick... Considering as, if I want to cause 1x rank damage: I can punch you and that WONT have a CD. <-- Another thing I think is a bit odd... my fireball from hell deals the same damage as a punch? That punch deals the same damage as my razor sharp swords? Umm.... superman has competition bruh...

Lexa Grimoire wrote:

Speed Demon Zack wrote:In terms of the magic power this has been done. It is now in magic rules instead of character perks as that made sense. I've also converted it into a table instead of being 8 spoilers. I think it should be much quicker and easier to see. YAY! I MADE A SMART POST! Extra points for making it a table!
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Personally, i'd like to remove limiters. It seems its just a cheap way to get extra exp and the only draw back is you can't use spells of a certain rank. As so many people on here are physical it basically means nothing to them.

Combine it with team bonuses and the exp is far too easy to get in my mind.

I see, there are some more players who share this opinion. I personally use it to validate my character saying that he's too powerful to take it off, and the added XP is a reason for me to use it in general. As for the others that are opposed to removing it, they do it solely for the XP. I'd like to propose a compromise, an equilibrium if you will...

Reduce the XP bonus by half on both of them, but keep the handicaps.

C Rank Limiter +25% XP
A Rank Limiter +50% XP

doing this will allow those who worship the limiter to have their bonus XP, but  it won't be as good for XP farming. This will also make the die hard XP farmers want to save their money up for the 'Lacrima Milk' which is basically the current A Rank Limiter with no limitations. In this case, the limiter user has to work slightly harder for their XP. They'll probably whine and moan about it, but the argument can be pointed to "the other option was remove it entirely" and that should be enough to shut them the flop-tart up.
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As for buffs I do try to let it be known on anything I grade that it is only 25% to a user of that rank. However, i've added details to the rulesno words to sum up my level of happiness from this... so here.

:daiki:

My comments in this color...

Seikatsu wrote:

So I'm going to direct this conversation partly back to the original reason... and re-focus it on the fact that limiters do in fact, have room to make a compromise between 100% annihilation and 100% keeping... This is the 50% mark that we could shake hands on?


Do we have any opinions of reducing the bonus XP of limiters by 1/2 while keeping the requirements for using them? Also, I noticed the Limiter's section is removed from the rules... this is the same as removing the limiter itself as when people say "yes, there is a limiter" they will instinctively look for the section. Can we please put that section back before human nature takes over and we have ANOTHER war in the cbox?

Multi-comment wrote:

Lady Red wrote:

Seikatsu wrote:

So I'm going to direct this conversation partly back to the original reason... and re-focus it on the fact that limiters do in fact, have room to make a compromise between 100% annihilation and 100% keeping... This is the 50% mark that we could shake hands on?


Do we have any opinions of reducing the bonus XP of limiters by 1/2 while keeping the requirements for using them? Also, I noticed the Limiter's section is removed from the rules... this is the same as removing the limiter itself as when people say "yes, there is a limiter" they will instinctively look for the section. Can we please put that section back before human nature takes over and we have ANOTHER war in the cbox?

Sorry. I didn't have an opinion on the limiters.  They weren't around back when they would have been useful to me.

I'm confused though,  on why the limiters are so specific.
What would be wrong with using the limiters as blanket limiters.   100% reduction of rank effectiveness setting you back a rank in spell damage,  ranges, strength,  durability, ect.The rank reduction is for magical aspects, but doesn't seem to effect melee damage. This could also add to your own argument LR, but I will also state, that the melee aspect could be considered the challenge part of it. Exaaample...

Unique Abilities that are buffs, such as +30% defense, and it increases by +5% per rank. At A rank, your buff is safe, however, apply the Degrading Buff rule, and your defense is no longer 30%, it's actually 7.5%. How??? because your unique ability is reduced from A rank to C rank! With your character no longer a walking tank, you can't charge in balls to the walls and throw bodies around.

In my own titan magic I have "Sub" forms that reduce my size and in doing so reduce my rank effectiveness and it seems to work out.  Not that I've had any practice/live use of it given that I'm still not approved.
But yeah.

Shard wrote:Cooldowns will remain for spells on site. I don't see them going anytime soon.
We're asking for reduction for sig spells, read the context bro

Signature spells I personally want to delimit or remove the trade weapon/armor bit as its heavily unbalanced.It's also unbalanced with melee. Both my characters are melee based, but the magic on both of them are supplementing the melee, and even assist it. My offensive spells that can be cast from 2+ ft away are limited to AoE (these effect area around Seikatsu, so still gotta be close) and my signature, which is essentially solar beam from pokemon. However, there are players who are purely magic. Meaning that they wouldn't be using swords like I do, they use magic. So is it balanced that their spell that deals 1x damage has a cooldown, when my sword which deals the same has no cooldown at all? No. No it is not. It's unreasonable to put a CD on normal melee damage, so lets make it so a signature that deals normal damage with that being the only effect have no CD, and signatures with added effects have a CD thats 1 less than their duration. If the spell is an instant, then it's CD can be 1 or 2 posts.

It is quite hard to modify the site to fit a 'suits all' method when its based off of Fairy Tail and a lot of mage's are heavy hitting physical characters:
LAxus, Gildarts, Natsu, Erza, Gray, Jellal, Makarov, Racer etc. So naturally a lot of people try to be like their favourites though with their own spin on it.

Its difficult. And every time a change is made we make some things better and other things worse it seems. As such...it becomes harder.There is always a balance young padowan.

Almyra Bys wrote:
One more possibility for change for the weapons/signatures rules would be for weapons users as well, since signature users can get all three extra signature spells at C-rank for free, while a weapon user has to 1. pay jewels, and 2. can only get two (magical) weapons without donating (I mean sure you can get an artifact weapon as a reward for some stuff, but it's pretty rare to see someone with an artifact weapon they didn't donate for). The possibility for this would be to be able to put lower grade weapons in higher grade slots. For instance, you could have two strong weapons and an artifact by putting a strong weapon in your legendary slot, or have a strong and two legendary weapons if you don't intend to or have the money to donate for an artifact. Same mechanic would go for armor.

Lexa Grimoire wrote:For Limiters, I put some thought into how they can be made so:

A.) They benefit those who wish to use them properly
B.) They benefit those who wish to abuse them
C.) They don't screw those who wish to not be left in the dust, buy those who abuse them.


Restrictions divided into 2 sections, 1 for each limiter.

C Rank Limiter:
Limiter reduces the player's weapon spells (active/passive) by 1 rank.
Limiter reduces the player's unique abilities (active/passive) by 1 rank.
Limiter reduces the player's pet's abilities (active/passive) by 1 rank.
Limiter cannot be used on jobs that do not have combat (most D rank jobs don't)
Limiter CAN be used on jobs 1 rank above, but apply less of a bonus
Limiter cannot be used on jobs that contain less than 5 monster dice rolls, or the bonus won't be applied.
Limiter cannot be applied with Lacrima Milk, or Team Bonus.
Limiter CAN be applied with Guild Bonus.
If Limiter is used with members of the same Team, Guild Bonus will be applied instead.

Limiter boosts XP gain by +50% for jobs of lesser rank.
This means, if a C rank uses this on a D Rank Combat oriented mission, he/she gains +12.5 XP

Limiter boosts XP gain by +35% for jobs of equal rank.
This means, if a C rank uses this on a C Rank combat oriented mission, he/she gains +17.5XP

If the player if A Rank or higher, and it's used on a job of equal rank the Limiter boosts XP by 15%
This means, if an A rank uses this on an A Rank combat oriented mission, he/she gains +187.5

Limiter boosts XP gain by +25% for jobs of greater rank.
This means, if a C Rank uses this on a B Rank combat oriented mission, he/she gains +62.5 XP

If the player if A Rank or higher, and it's used on a job of greater rank the Limiter boosts XP by 5%
This means, if an A rank uses this on an S Rank combat oriented mission, he/she gains +312.5



A-Rank Limiter
Limiter reduces the player's weapon spells (active/passive) by 2 rank.
Limiter reduces the player's unique abilities (active/passive) by 2 rank.
Limiter reduces the player's pet's abilities (active/passive) by 2 rank.
Limiter cannot be used on jobs that do not have combat (most D rank jobs don't)
Limiter CAN be used on jobs 1 rank above, but apply less of a bonus
Limiter cannot be used on jobs that contain less than 5 monster dice rolls, or the bonus won't be applied.
Limiter cannot be applied with Lacrima Milk, or Team Bonus.
Limiter CAN be applied with Guild Bonus.
If Limiter is used with members of the same Team, Guild Bonus will be applied instead.

Limiter boosts XP gain by +100% for jobs of Lesser rank.
This means if an A rank uses this on a B Rank combat oriented job, he/she gains +250 XP

Limiter boosts XP gain by 25% for jobs of equal rank.
This means if an A rank uses this on an A Rank combat oriented job, he/she gains +312.5 XP

Limiter boosts XP gain by +10% for jobs of greater rank.
This mean, if an A rank uses this on an S rank combat oriented job, he/she gains +625XP