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    Tertiary Magic Rework

    Kirahunter
    Kirahunter

    The Phoenix


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    Post by Kirahunter 20th June 2015, 5:55 pm

    I don't know if there are any approved tertiary magics and if there are I don't know of one that has ever been used. Why? Everyone was all over the concept of tertiary magic, people loved the idea. So why is no one using it?

    Well because it requires SS-Rank and the rules describe it as not being able to "Attack, defend, heal or buff." and as nothing more then "something neat."

    So it's incredibly difficult to obtain and hardly useful.

    We have three choices here address one problem or the other or a little bit of both.

    We could keep it's limited power as is and reduce the rank requirement to say B-Rank or C-Rank and then it'd get use.

    We could up up it's power to being a second secondary magic but just knock the rank down to S-Rank(because SS-Rank is a weird rank anyway.)

    Then finally my ideal would be to make it a second secondary magic that you get at A-Rank. In this case to balance it players would only get spell slots up to the rank right below them to keep it weaker then secondary. I.E. an A-Rank player who just got it only gets spells to B-Rank.

    As for mentoring it(which should be the case since it would become a second secondary magic), the option for S-Ranks to train themselves should also be given. Since there is a distinct lack of H-Ranks walking around. It's one thing for secondary since they unlock the option at a low rank but since we'd be unlocking tertiaries at A or S Rank finding a mentor would be really really hard.

    And really really hard things get under used and under appreciated.


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    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Vox Nihili
    Vox Nihili

    The forgotten


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    Tertiary Magic Rework Empty Re: Tertiary Magic Rework

    Post by Vox Nihili 20th June 2015, 7:42 pm

    I don't really see the issue with the third magic as is except making it open for S ranks. If you give it combat abilities and spells that is just another thing that has to be balanced and such. Third magic is fluff magic, rp magic, casual. It is the gender change that lets you go from male to female, that lets you become a cute neko or write in the air. It enhances a rp experiance rather than just combat.


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    Tertiary Magic Rework 36626_s
    Chelvaric
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    Kitty Avenger


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    Post by Chelvaric 20th June 2015, 9:18 pm

    i agree with lowering it maybe to A rank. i do want that fluffy neko change....

    but giving it more power i wouldnt its jsut fluff


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    Tertiary Magic Rework Bakugou.Katsuki.600.1932217

    It is a man’s heart which sets the world aflame..


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    Kirahunter
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    The Phoenix


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    Post by Kirahunter 21st June 2015, 4:16 am

    But do you really need to be S-Rank to write on air? If it is going to be nothing more then "fluff" as you said then it should be much easier to obtain. I mean A-Rank mages qualify for the title of Wizard Saint, a legendary individual who will be remember through out history. Is having a gender swap spell really that ground breaking? That sounds C-Rank maybe even D-Rank because no matter how you look at it that doesn't take a huge amount of magic power.


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    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 21st June 2015, 8:47 am

    My issue is i have no idea how many slots you get or anything


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    Post by Kirahunter 21st June 2015, 12:28 pm

    I thought it was one spell per rank?


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    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 21st June 2015, 1:27 pm

    No idea. But if its just limited bits and bobs like gender bending or flying or lock picking....should it even be ranked or just a number of utility abilities?


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    Post by Kirahunter 21st June 2015, 6:45 pm

    Well here are all the rules posted regarding tertiary magic


    A.7 Tertiary Magic

    Is only obtainable for mages of SS Rank and higher. This magic is complementary magic that only has a supportive rule in all aspects. It is highly recommended to use this magic for Guild Symbol spells. Tertiary magic has 1 spell of each rank, up to your own rank (max. S Rank), and is also registered in the Secondary Magic section.

    It is listed in your profile following the example:

    Primary Magic: Something Cool

    Secondary Magic: Something Neat / Something Beautiful (Tertiary)

    The following magic is NOT allowed:
    - Offensive Magic
    - Defensive Magic
    - Buff Magic (increase of stats, power, ect.)
    - Debuff Magic (decrease of stats, power, etc.)
    - Lacrima
    - Healing Magic


    So without the ability to attack, defend, buff, lacrima(how do you even lacrima?), or heal it seems tertiary as is serves almost no purpose. It appears to be designed to deal with miscellaneous issues and obstacles such as locked doors or communication. However it is reserved exclusively for mages who are so powerful they can just smash through doors and shout across the world. Making them rather useless.

    If we do keep restrictions like this I feel maybe they should have no spells but rather have a number of passive abilities available. Also of course the minimum rank should be dropped an extreme degree.

    But I'm still of the mind that treating tertiary as a novelty magic is a waste of a concept.


    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Lexa Grimoire
    Lexa Grimoire

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    Post by Lexa Grimoire 1st August 2015, 10:23 pm

    Speed Demon Zack wrote:No idea. But if its just limited bits and bobs like gender bending or flying or lock picking....should it even be ranked or just a number of utility abilities?

    Sorry if this is a bit late, but the problem with flying is that some players either have a unique ability, a spell, or an item ability that lets the fly. Either that, or they completely ignore the need for wings as I've seen in a job that stated the boss was able to fly, and my partner "ran up and punched him in the gut"...

    The problem with Lockpicking is that almost no one puts locked doors in their threads.... On my main I do, but I have the ability to become ethereal, so even having that the door's locked is pointless cause I literally walk through it. But I digress... no player makes their job so the NPC's think logically and lock the doors.

    The ability to write in air seems to have no purpose in the least, as it seems unless the players design themselves to be on the other end of many MANY walls, they can easily speak to the one next to them. So writing to convey a message is out the window. Writing for the sake of writing seems to serve no purpose as when people are on jobs above D rank, it's probably combat oriented.


    I never understood the practicality of having tertiary magic since when most people RP they don't bother to create obstacles. If a person needs to change form, they normally have a spell or an item ability. If they want to look like someone, say for an assassination job, they just steal a uniform and boom they're in.

    I'm kind of with Kirahunter on a second, secondary that gives the player 1 spell slot for the rank below them....

    As for the rank being reduced to S I also think is a good idea. Because I don't know many who'd pay 25$ for the VIP, and then get 550,000 EXP for H rank, and SS rank is only for guild masters. Also, I don't see many players being able to become a guild master as we don't have that many guilds.

    I haven't seen an overly ridiculous amount of S ranks on site... many people I've found on site are A rank or lower.


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    Kirahunter
    Kirahunter

    The Phoenix


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    Post by Kirahunter 1st August 2015, 10:39 pm

    o-o ooh yes lets start talking about this again. Pretty please?


    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
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    Eris
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    Post by Eris 2nd August 2015, 4:43 am

    I'd very much like to see A-ranks capable of gaining Tertiary magic,  with spell slots up to 1 rank less than their own.


    Whats more,  I'd like to see leniency given to what they are capable of doing before they're "Too combat effective".  

    Everything has use in combat to some extent to begin with, regardless of what it is.    By trying to limit combat effectiveness you cut out potentially interesting themes and utilities.   So it should mostly just be on a case by case basis and not overly critical.


    A-ranks having D-B-rank spell slots on a fluffy optional third magic type would add a lot.


    I do not agree that Tertiary magic should be "Trained" at all.  Tertiary magic should remain up to the player on how they obtain or acquire it,  since it varies so much it could be incredibly basic house-hold cleaning magic or some fantastical light show of a fluffy spectacle.


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    Post by Chaotic Rumble 2nd August 2015, 8:23 pm

    A curious subject, and it has been a while since I've done this, but I think I'll add in a few cents myself.

    Rework it.  It's incredibly vague and limiting that while I was trying to make mine, I simply didn't bother halfway through 'cause I wasn't sure what were within the limits of reason with tertiary magic.  We can't do the following:

    "- Offensive Magic
    - Defensive Magic
    - Buff Magic (increase of stats, power, ect.)
    - Debuff Magic (decrease of stats, power, etc.)
    - Lacrima
    - Healing Magic"

    However, there are still many things combat related I can think up of that would be possible for tertiary.  "X is capable of dashing with every single one of their slashes".  "X is capable of parrying every single hit thrown at them".  "X is capable of seeing the entire area from a birds eye point of view".  "X is great at using guns".

    List goes on and on.  The way I understand this magic is like everyone else - things that are almost completely useless, and while I can have these great ideas for abilities such as the ones I presented above, it feels as though it can't be a thing, simply because of how tertiary magic is set up right now.  So, the first step on reworking tertiary magic is having a very clear understanding of how it could be made, 'cause it's kinda vague, even if you do say "fluff things".

    Secondly, the restrictions should be lighter.  I'm not saying to remove 'em all (though it would definitely be appreciated) but at LEAST let us have combat utility with them if that's what the said person wants.  You still wouldn't be able to have any offensive, defensive, buffing magic, etc, and it could still be very useful.

    Lastly, reduce the rank requirement to AT LEAST S-Rank.  I know this has been said already, but I cannot agree more on this regard.  You need to be a guildmaster, or H-Rank, for...  What?  Abilities I could already use at D to C-Rank?  What would be the problem awarding this to lower ranked mages if that was the case?

    Hmm. Seems like that's all I can really think to say at the moment. I'll post again if I can figure anything else out (I'm still tired as crap).

    TL;DR - Rework it.


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    Post by Minoru's anger 3rd August 2015, 11:11 am

    Chaotic Rumble wrote:A curious subject, and it has been a while since I've done this, but I think I'll add in a few cents myself.

    Rework it.  It's incredibly vague and limiting that while I was trying to make mine, I simply didn't bother halfway through 'cause I wasn't sure what were within the limits of reason with tertiary magic.  We can't do the following:

    "- Offensive Magic
    - Defensive Magic
    - Buff Magic (increase of stats, power, ect.)
    - Debuff Magic (decrease of stats, power, etc.)
    - Lacrima
    - Healing Magic"

    However, there are still many things combat related I can think up of that would be possible for tertiary.  "X is capable of dashing with every single one of their slashes".  "X is capable of parrying every single hit thrown at them".  "X is capable of seeing the entire area from a birds eye point of view".  "X is great at using guns".

    List goes on and on.  The way I understand this magic is like everyone else - things that are almost completely useless, and while I can have these great ideas for abilities such as the ones I presented above, it feels as though it can't be a thing, simply because of how tertiary magic is set up right now.  So, the first step on reworking tertiary magic is having a very clear understanding of how it could be made, 'cause it's kinda vague, even if you do say "fluff things".

    Secondly, the restrictions should be lighter.  I'm not saying to remove 'em all (though it would definitely be appreciated) but at LEAST let us have combat utility with them if that's what the said person wants.  You still wouldn't be able to have any offensive, defensive, buffing magic, etc, and it could still be very useful.

    Lastly, reduce the rank requirement to AT LEAST S-Rank.  I know this has been said already, but I cannot agree more on this regard.  You need to be a guildmaster, or H-Rank, for...  What?  Abilities I could already use at D to C-Rank?  What would be the problem awarding this to lower ranked mages if that was the case?

    Hmm.  Seems like that's all I can really think to say at the moment.  I'll post again if I can figure anything else out (I'm still tired as crap).

    TL;DR - Rework it.


    seriously though if you are going to put a rank on this and a higher rank then Secondary is then wtf do we have restrictions.


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    Tertiary Magic Rework Empty Re: Tertiary Magic Rework

    Post by Kirahunter 3rd August 2015, 12:48 pm

    Kitteh has a point. If it is way harder to get then secondary why is it way weaker? Now I'd be for it being harder to get if say we buffed it up a bit gave it some combat implications...


    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Tertiary Magic Rework Empty Re: Tertiary Magic Rework

    Post by Rosetta Crawford 3rd August 2015, 12:51 pm

    Your point makes no sense to me Minoru.

    It is got at a higher rank because it is something that requires a higher amount of experience to use.
    I am fine with having S ranks be able to use it.

    The concept of having it as a third magic in total, but limited to one rank below the user is an interesting idea. For a H rank this gives a spell of each rank except H. I'd say perhaps some limitations on it. Otherwise you might as well just provide a second slot for secondary spells once you hit a certain rank


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    Lexa Grimoire
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    Tertiary Magic Rework Empty Re: Tertiary Magic Rework

    Post by Lexa Grimoire 3rd August 2015, 4:06 pm

    Some limitations could be that they all have to be either Support/Defense/Offense, as oppose to being able to make a mix for the entire line of slots, and would have to be slightly weaker than normal spells. Support buffs/heals would be half power of normal ones, defensive things like barriers could only take 1 hit of damage equal to the player's rank (or equivilant), and offensive would only deal half rank damage or full rank damage if it's DOT. Since it'd be weaker, the MP cost could also be jacked down a bit, say...

    S - 7%
    A - 5%
    B - 3%
    C - 1%
    D - 0%

    and rank wouldn't effect the MP cost like it does with Primary/Secondary magic since the spells already cost less MP.


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