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    Spell Template Difficulty

    Mifune
    Mifune

    The White Wizard


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    Discussion Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Mifune 17th January 2015, 8:06 am

    "Weaknesses: ( List all the negative aspects of the spell and all the weaknesses like above as well. You must have at least one more weakness than strengths. Remember to separate them individually and bullet point them. These weaknesses must represent your spell, and not the over-all weakness of the magic)"

    I'm not entirely sure if many other members have an issue with the spell template as it is, but in my own opinion I believe it's asking too much for weaknesses.  I've noticed recently that "Cooldowns" Now has its own spot on the template alongside duration.  This means that you cannot include your cool down as a weakness, which used to be a way for members to compensate for lack of weaknesses.  Also, you require one extra weakness to out weigh your strengths, not including any weakness listed in the magic template.  So a minimum of 4 different weaknesses specific to the spell, not the magic...

    In an effort to make things more balanced I believe that the difficulty to create magic has been unnecessarily increased.  4 weaknesses for a generic spell is incredibly difficult to come up with, so people end up writing irrelevant facts that 99% of the time just does not matter.

    I propose that things go back to the way they used to be, which worked fine imo.  3 strengths, 3 weaknesses with cool downs available as a valid weakness and increased cool downs as compensation for lack of weakness.  Spell breaking weaknesses perhaps could also compensate for lack of other weaknesses.  Things that possess the potential to render spells useless or far weaker than what they should be.  I believe leniency in this area will make app creation much easier for members and will also help to speed up the process of approval by allowing room variation without compromising a mods ability to balance an app.  If a mod doesn't have to maintain an exact 3 for 3 ratio, a mod can simply ask "Add X posts to cool down, or expand on another weakness you already have." instead of "Make 2 more weaknesses that have no relevance."

    Thoughts?


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    Zoe Schiffer
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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Zoe Schiffer 17th January 2015, 8:26 am

    I actually agree with what Shuhei has suggested. I'm pretty sure a lot of people on this site have the most difficulty coming up with weaknesses for their spell rather than the spell itself. In dire need of posting weaknesses, some post completely irrelevant weaknesses as well. And honestly speaking, it gets frustrating at times. And I have also been delayed in posting my own magic app due to this very reason.

    Therefore, it'll be far easier for members as well mods and admins to check apps when they have a minimum of 3 weakness. Having 3 strengths and 3 weaknesses is fine to balance a spell. But of course, those weaknesses have to relate to the specific spell itself.

    Or it can also be changed to have the same number of strengths and weaknesses; for example, a person having 4 strengths should have 4 weaknesses as well. However, this is just a means to balance the application.

    Another alternative would be to allow the cooldown as the 4th and last weakness of the spell but only in cases where a person has no more relevant weaknesses to offer [it's according to them what they would like to do]. However, if the number of strengths and weaknesses are equal such as 3 then I do not think adding a cooldown as a weakness is a good option. Increased cool downs as compensation for lack of weakness would be good if allowed however, using the cooldown itself as a weaknesses whilst having 3 strengths and 3 weaknesses is not really needed according to my opinion.

    That's pretty much what I have to say. Thank you, Shuhei, for suggesting this and I support what he has to say.


    Last edited by Zoe Schiffer on 17th January 2015, 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
    Janneline Ariel
    Janneline Ariel

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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Janneline Ariel 17th January 2015, 8:26 am

    Totally agree with Shu. Having to figure out 4 different weakness for a single spell is just annoying, and most of the time we end up making BS weakness just because we can't figure out more, or we are forced to nerf our magic a lot just in order to balance out the strengths and weakness. Yet, what's the point of them? I've seen sites where the spell template did not include the strengths and weakness, and they were working pretty fine. So why have them in the first place?

    Most of the mods would say that it is to balance out the magic. Yes, it may serve to balance out the magic. But, let's be honest, there are thousands of magics that are awfully broken, and the weakness don't balance them out at all. Which essentially redeems the Weakness (and Strengths) section useless. A spell can be balanced out by mods easily without the need of the strengths and weakness section. It just requires them to read and understand the spell. Nothing else.

    So, in short, I support what Shuhei said. There.


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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Friend 17th January 2015, 9:01 am

    Personally, I care little for changing up the weaknesses-to-strengths standard, for two reasons:

    1. My character isn't a mage. Whatever happens to the rules on magic won't adversely effect me.
    2. Coming up with a certain amount of strengths and/or weaknesses isn't something I'm incapable or even have difficulty in accomplishing.

    Now, despite all that, I'm still posting in here; yet I'm not asking for reform—so why is that? Because I don't believe a set ratio of weaknesses-to-strengths makes sense, whatsoever. In combat-context, a spell is used to fight an opponent(s)—so what's the point in using something more disadvantageous than advantageous? By law of logic, you wouldn't. Not without some sort of underlying strategy to use the weaknesses of your actions to further yourself in the battle. Of course, that's dandy and all—but that's not the only way to fight. Some people prefer, and enact, head-on tactics, which is okay too. Given that, what's the point of using a spell that has more weaknesses than strengths?

    I'm not arguing that spells shouldn't have weaknesses, so don't think I am. What I am arguing is that the weaknesses of a spell shouldn't be based on number. The same thing with strength; I don't find it sensible that a spell must achieve a minimum requirement of strengths or weaknesses. Sometimes, actions just have one strength, or one weakness. It's fine and dandy to have the members use their brain juice flowing and making them get creative instead of just settling for one strength/weakness. But not all things are so simple.

    In my opinion? Strengths and weaknesses shouldn't be restricted to a certain amount, but rather the certain effects. Depending on the gravity of a spell's weakness or strength—that's how they should be balanced out. What's the point of having four weaknesses which ultimately do jack to inhibit the user, and then have three strengths which display how powerful a spell can be? Of course, something like that would be checked by the grader, since that'd be unbalanced, but that's not the point. The point is that a strength—and weakness—can be worth more than some other strengths and weaknesses of lower effect.

    I find it more sensible to at least have a 1-strength 1-weakness restriction on spells, and it is up to the person turning in the magic app to balance the strengths and weaknesses. They can have 4 strengths and one weakness, but that one weakness must have equal value to those four strength; in can inhibit the user just as much as the strengths are an advantage to them.

    This allows far more freedom for the apper, and the workload on the grader isn't affected all too greatly. If the apper has unbalanced strengths and weaknesses, all the grader has to do is point it out and probably change the value of the weaknesses' affect (or strengths' effect).

    e.g

    Name: Rectal Fireball
    Rank: D
    Type: Fire
    Duration: Instant
    Cooldown: 2
    Description: The user aims their posterior in whatever desired direction, and with a great big grunt the magic power within flows out of the rectum along with the release of 'gas'. The eternano expelled is blasted out with far more pressure than the gas itself, inherently propelling the nauseating substance outward. Following the 'blast' is a spark achieved through eternano. This spark causes a chain reaction that combusts the 'gas', and with the momentum from the initial "Blast", a raging form of fire spits out a distance of twelve feet.
    Strengths:

    • The process of completing the spell is highly unorthodox, and might catch the target off guard
    • The fireball can do damage equivalent to singing hair or slight burns on skin.
    • The spark occurs after both the gas and eternano is 'blasted' out. As such, it is not necessary that one exposes their rear to the open air for 'maximum effect'.

    Weaknesses:

    • The user must eat a very heavy meal filled with flatulence-inducing items at some point in the thread before using this spell. As such, the usage of this spell is limited to a pre-determined action, and can not be used until this pre-determined action is completed.


    As you can see, this spell only has one weakness and three strengths, but the strengths given are superbly lame, whereas the weakness actually has a tangible effect and inhibits the user equally—perhaps even moreso than the strengths are an advantage. As for the Duration and Cooldown counting as a strength and/or weakness, I'm pretty whatever about that.


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    Tuna
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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Tuna 17th January 2015, 9:33 am

    I support a single strength/single weakness situation.


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    Kaito
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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Kaito 17th January 2015, 9:56 am

    that sounds good lyserg


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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Natalia Wolf 17th January 2015, 11:38 am

    I think the biggest issue with strengths and weaknesses, and this is totally agreeing with what everyone has said, is the fact that we are forced to make BS for most of them cause some spells especially D rank are just too simple to have 50 billion weaknesses.


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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Discussion Re: Spell Template Difficulty

    Post by Rosetta Crawford 17th January 2015, 11:41 am

    This is already been worked on and will be reformed.


    To be honest I don't have any difficulty with weaknesses nor having slightly more of them than strengths. However, the whole three strength, four weaknesses thing is irritating as sometimes a spell doesn't have more than two strengths.


    Don't worry though. All the systems are currently under review and are being rebalanced for member enjoyment. Should you have suggestions in regards to this feel free to keep posting them, but please keep the suggestions calm and don't start having a go at people. I know you haven't in this thread, but suggestion threads do seem to go that way sometimes.


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