Patch Amendment

"From today on forward guildmasters can't make secondary requirements in order for a character to join a guild this means that GM's can't Memory wipe a character when they leave the guild, GM's can't force people to not speak about the guild etc. It's alright for GM's to make contracts; but they shouldn't be mandatory for joining a guild, it's purely meant for story"

I understand the reason behind this patch, which blatantly targets a single Guild. However, the patch appears to restrict creativity in that it states a Guild Master should not be allowed to create a Guild of Mages that fit in with the theme of the Guild.

To bring back an old conversation, the activity in each Guild is determined by the Guild Master's efforts to make their Guilds exciting and interesting. A Guild Master should have the Right to add Secondary Requirements to join a Guild. If a Guild Master wants a Guild with only swordsmen... A Guild Master should have the right to refuse mages who are not swordsmen. If that Guild becomes inactive because of this Secondary requirement, then that's the Guild Masters fault. This new Rule hinders creativity and should be amended to permit Guild Masters to create Secondary Requirements to Join a Guild.

The issue which is the reason for this patch, I believe are the forced requirements a person must agree to upon leaving a Guild... This portion of the patch I believe is fine. A mage should be in control of his own character, and if a character changes and no longer fits in a Guild, that character should be allowed to leave without repercussion. However, I firmly believe that it is a Guild Masters absolute Right, to determine who may enter the Guild and under what circumstances, no ifs ands or buts.

It's a pretty blatant and specific attack on my guild,  referencing it multiple times and throwing in that it even effects invite-only guilds just for good measure- which there is no reason to regulate in such a way as only those who are invited and accept would join.
It's an extreme abuse of staff authority and one of the worst moves I've ever seen a site's staff do in ten years on RP forums.

Not only that,  but just to hurt my guild they go and actively hurt the site as a whole taking away yet more of the creative freedoms allowed.    A guild of swordsmen?  Not allowed anymore.   A guild of mages who have never been dark, a pure "Uncorrupt" sort of  legal guild?  Not allowed.   A guild where everyone wears a signet ring,  or a uniform?  Not allowed.

This wasn't even thought through,  or worse, it was.


If you want to avoid clauses that directly harm characters that leave a guild that is fine; Death isn't allowed as a clause for people who leave.  Whatever.  Let them fight for survival at the most and get away alive and well or something.  But banning guild concepts entirely like this  is repugnant.   Let alone things that are agreed upon when you join.  They aren't random,  you chose to join, especially if it is an invite only guild.  Worst case scenario you erase the situation from your character's history and pretend it never happened.



Next thing you know nobody will be allowed to have PC Guildmasters,   what's the point of having them anyway at this rate?

There is no benefit to this 'patch' whatsoever,  it causes nothing but harm and takes away creative freedoms and individuality.

Completely agree on every single point. Even in GH, the repercussion is... a memory wipe. Not really anything that could be considered harmful. You simply don't even remember what GH even is, and that's it, you're free to go. This patch seems like it was meant to cut a branch hanging over a power line, but instead, the entire tree was cut down. If you don't want something specific like holding bodily harm over a character if they leave the guild, simply put, you can't hold that over a character if they choose to leave. For some guilds, being hidden away is a necessity, this only opens the door for making things harder for those guilds AND ONLY THOSE GUILDS. You took an aspect that was only lightly used and easily avoidable for members by just knowing what they're getting into and instead made something that is very easy to abuse in character.

And of course this making it harder for a guild to fit a theme... Just why? What is the point not letting some GMs set a secondary requirement? The only people who ever know what is being charged are the staff, the entirety of the community is left out of the majority of decisions.

Can't say that I like this change much at all myself as a new GM and because BS has been a secret guild to the public since it was created because it is a guild that is meant to be pirates that steal and pillage while hiding under the disguise of a trading company guild called the West Fiore Trading Company.

This new rule, which I knew was going to be a thing from my talks with staff with trying to come up with ways to keep BS secret with the WFTC being the publicly known part of it, hurts what I'm trying to do a lot by taking that creativity away. Not trying to make this sound like a thing against only my guild at all but I have been talking with staff a bit about the changes I wanted to make and have changed them before but was still denied and told that they were not allowing secondary requirements. You can't have a guild built on secrecy with anyone joining it and then just leaving and telling the world of the secrets in the guild and sure from what I was told as a GM I can just void story that hurts the guild but that doesn't work with me because once its story on site, its story for me. We can't just void something that happened and act like it never happened because that ruins story and creativity more.

Like said above, if members choose to join a guild knowing the lore with it then it should fall on that member because they knew what the lore of the guild was and how they handle people who basically betray them. Not saying it should be death or a mind wipe or anything but its hard to have secrecy IC with this rule and it only makes sense for some guilds to be secret with what they do. Otherwise we just have a lot of cookie cutter-esque guilds with little creativity behind them that have to void ideas to keep the guild 'fun'.

Wouldn't it be better to ask members of the site about the changes you want to implement first instead of just doing them?

As a lowly nobody who hasn't posted in forever, I'm with just about everybody here. Thematic guilds are impossible, and those themes are what differentiate guilds entirely. While characters that vary from the theme are nice, the overall theme allows you to put your character into a setting you want. If theme's are damaged as a whole, this flattens out the variety of guilds and makes whether you join this guild or this guild fairly irrelevant, in fact it would be better for everyone to join the same guild since it wouldn't make much a difference.

Covert guilds are the ones that are destroyed by this in their entire existence. They can not function without these little nuances that let them exist as 'secret' entities within the world we play in. A guild trying to hide its existence or purposes can't exist here because it can't swear its members to secrecy or ensure their members, if they leave, don't reveal secrets to other characters who should not know about it. This feels redundant as a whole and causes way more problems than it solves.

Just in case anyone doesn't notice but reads this,  the patch was taken down.    Everybody can be chill now.      

Thank you guys for listening.

Yeah i saw the update, then the change, then read this thread lol. Thankful it was taken down, which in all honesty, was the obvious route this patch would go. No secondary conditions? Thats just plain stupid. If i make a guild where if you join, you have to become a clown, who eat rock candy and juggles elephants so be it. IF YOU chose to join, then why the fuck are you acting surprised when i hand you your make up? Come on now. No one applied for a slayer position, thinking its an app for a weapon. What the rules created for the guild were, is what you agree to. No one forces you, i honestly dont even see why time was spent on thinking up this patch. Seems like some one should have just said that in the staff chat. It literally no different than any other rules on the forum. You agree to them once you create your character and join site. Same with guild.

The only thing I have to add since it has already been removed is that Cirven is right. When Eris and I were on the 1st gen staff. We would release idea threads and hold votes before implementing site wide systems or changes such as the MP system or others.

This culture needs to return as now the staff just releases patches without confirmation from the members and fans of the site that it will be well Received. Just post threads so we can all talk rather than a chat within staff chat and then a patch Post. Which seems random to all members.

Gotta say, I think the biggest issue with this site in general is how staff go about changing things seemingly on a whim. You get people who ask for change and all agree on some things. Those ideas and suggestions never get truly looked into or changed. Yet things nobody asks to be changed are just shuffled around seemingly at random. What sense does that make? It's like what everyone else has said. Why was this even considered? I admittedly don't like the idea of losing your memory when you leave a guild but ya know, I didn't like it so I chose to not join that guild. I actually like the idea that guilds do indeed have secondary joining effects to make them different. Especially for a dark guild! But again my point is, why do things people ask to get changed never really get changed while things nobody wants changed is always changed?