Duration vs Upkeep

I've been on sites where someone can pay upkeep on their spells, per round, to keep up their spell for a longer duration.  This upkeep is usually a percentage of the spell done to keep it running for a longer term.  This upkeep can be anywhere from 10%-25% of the spell's initial cost.  

For example:

A spell that has a lingering effect of +25% speed to a 50m radius area has an MP cost of 20 MP to cast.
If using 25% MP upkeep per round (after the first), it would cost the user 5 MP per round to maintain this spell per round/post.  As long as the player can keep paying this, they can keep the spell going until they decide to cancel or until they run out of MP.

Sure, the numbers are a bit high in that example due to how MP works on this site, but I think that way would make spells have a LOT more flexibility than keeping people stuck to a certain duration, making spells extremely inflexible to make.  Allowing the user to spend more MP to have their spells last as long as they want (Giving them an option here) can allow for more creative spells instead of the very stern rules we have for duration on this site.

Just a thought.

PS: You could always say, "But Blackthorne, there's Limit Transcendence". Yes, I agree, that's basically what that is.. But Limit Transcendence is also extremely limited. I'm saying that this should be an option that everyone can use for each of their spells, not being limited to Limit Transcendence only for "upkeep"

So you are wanting a LT for instant spells as well as duration spells basically? Because if not LT already does what you are saying.

I'm trying to see where you are saying LT is extremely limited too but it is exactly what you said above unless you meant this in a different way or something...?

Also, a lot of the rules are based on PvP things and when doing your own RP story it is usually overlooked. People get too caught up in there being so many rules to remember that this is a RP site and not meant for PvP. Things are graded with PvP in mind just in case it happens. Has been that way for awhile now.

I realize you mentioned LT, but also called LT pretty limiting. The thing is, you activate LT for any of your spells, and can use it for multiple of them just like you want here. There would be no difference in allowing a spell to go beyond the duration for an upkeep cost, and going with just activating LT to maintain an upkeep.

The reason I didn't want to use LT is for spells that have a certain effect, such as:

Charging post for 3 posts to deal damage, and then have an additional effect that deals a debuff to a target for X more posts. In this case, having it upon creation (not just LT) can allow the debuff to be what is extended, not the charging of the spell. Allowing it ON CREATION is what I'm trying to get at, not necessarily for spells where you use LT as an after-thought. Again, people may have to remember to use LT with said spells, which doesn't help with the actual creation of the spell. And LT also makes Cooldown increase by 2 posts for every 1 post longer you make the spell, which is kinda silly for all of the MP you pour into it.

cooldown will always be +1 longer than the duration, even if some upkeep was attached to it. Though LT you could still say. Do your 3 post charge, and when the spell would normally run out. Activate LT onto it, and the only thing that would be extended at that point would be the debuff, unless it was a DoT+debuff or something like that, in which the DoT would also be extended ect...

I've see this done a couple times already. I agree that perhaps LT needs to be looked at to just make the cooldown go up when duration goes up +1:1 ratio, to make it fair, but yet, I'm sorry if I'm looking at this the wrong way, but what it sounds like so far, is just you don't want to have to remember to use LT on the spell, and just want it in the description. However, I do have a solution for that.

Perhaps, in the description, mention Limit Transcendence only extends the (insert thing here) duration. Which will of course extend the spell duration, and increase cooldown (to be fair). Though perhaps LT can be looked at to go to a 1:1 like I mentioned earlier.

Just a thought though. Sorry if I looked at it in the wrong way.

Yes, I can see where you're coming from.  My only issue is that LT makes you decide how long you want it out for upon casting.  Where-as, having upkeep, you can have it around for as long as you want and cancel whenever you want without forcing you to make a "post duration" when creating those kind of spells.  For these kind of spells, upon spell creation, you can just simply post "Upkeep" and it'll be up to the player to decide how long it'll last.  

Of course there'll still be limits such as binding spells or anything that incapacitates a target cannot be used (which LT actually allows that in it's current incarnation) and spells that drain magic cannot be used in this fashion.  But giving people the power of "Duration:  Upkeep" gives players more freedom to control their spells the way they want it.

Also, a thing to add:
- If you make Upkeep spells cost 25% of the spell's cost every post, every 4 post = the spell's full cost, which is how long most duration spells last anyway.

Or you could simply make it cost full at start and charge 10% of the MP Cost (or 25%) there-after every post. Though, i'd personally rather have the first one as it won't feel like a giant waste of magic.

Quite interesting actually. I feel LT could benefit from that also, make it so you can just deactivate at will, and not simply just have it 'up' for a set length. Nice add on Black. I look forward to seeing what happens with the suggestions.

Sometimes I treat duration more as "uses" for some spells cause getting to use a fiery punch for a single post and then having to wait a couple posts to use something so simple strikes me as odd. Now using it for a bit and then swapping to a new tactic strikes me as more reasonable. Or maybe you just don't want your fist on fire for three posts straight, get some "non-fire time" in there before reigniting.

Blackthorne wrote:Yes, I can see where you're coming from.  My only issue is that LT makes you decide how long you want it out for upon casting.  Where-as, having upkeep, you can have it around for as long as you want and cancel whenever you want without forcing you to make a "post duration" when creating those kind of spells.  For these kind of spells, upon spell creation, you can just simply post "Upkeep" and it'll be up to the player to decide how long it'll last.  

Of course there'll still be limits such as binding spells or anything that incapacitates a target cannot be used (which LT actually allows that in it's current incarnation) and spells that drain magic cannot be used in this fashion.  But giving people the power of "Duration:  Upkeep" gives players more freedom to control their spells the way they want it.

Also, a thing to add:
- If you make Upkeep spells cost 25% of the spell's cost every post, every 4 post = the spell's full cost, which is how long most duration spells last anyway.  

Or you could simply make it cost full at start and charge 10% of the MP Cost (or 25%) there-after every post.  Though, i'd personally rather have the first one as it won't feel like a giant waste of magic.

The only issue with adding upkeep-like spells is that it makes duration spells do the exact same thing but for more MP. Its an issue I thought up in the past when I was staff but decided not to mess with it because of how big of a change it was. Also, this is your story on site so you can cancel a duration spell whenever you want. I have done it in the past. You still suffer the full CD but you could still cancel when you wanted.

If 'upkeep' was added then we'd have to either make it less effective as someone who uses a duration spell or we scrap duration for 'upkeep'. Also the CD would have to be stated as being 1 post higher than how long the spell is active, etc.

Again though, LT does what you want here still too so you could run into people who don't want to mess with anything because of that. We'll see where this goes.

This wouldn't be as big an issue if we removed cooldown entirely or reduced it.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to spam super powerful spells, but it costs MP. Even if I was a H rank I could only use my H rank 5 times before i'd be screwed. I could use an S rank spell 10 times but when would I need to?

Cooldowns as a 'forced' concept is a bit of an annoyance as you then have to build spells around the concept of a cooldown.

Of course this removes the need for sig spells, but I feel that we could make those into actual signature spells...as in rare spells that are a bit stronger than others. Something a character might use as a signature finishing move perhaps.