Force has been Nerfed?!

As some of us already know, Dragon/God/Demon Force has been Nerfed. The nearly impossible to activate form for all slayers, that used to amplify stats by 100% now buffs mages 30%... a 70% drop in stats, and yet it still requires a mage to achieve 150% MP via consumption to activate. Physical Attacks no longer deal Rank damage, they now only buff physical strikes with elemental effects. A feat most of us achieve with a simple Unique Ability.

Albeit we do still get 150% spell power, which is a lot. I'm uncertain if everyone feels that this is enough. Keep in mind that at the end of Force, which God knows how any of us managed to activate with that 150% required MP and the limiting Regeneration Rules, we are left with barely anything... 5% MP after 7 posts. Worth it 10% if you're a 3rd Generation, which you PAID MONEY To be. Why would anyone even bother being a 3rd Generation now that Force has been nerfed? It's way more beneficial to just have a second element now, making 3rd Gens obsolete.

I feel that the staff should just sit back on this one and just see how much of the community is against this change. All those who feel that this nerf should be changed back to how it was, please reply...

Keep in mind, those numbers are primarily only for PvP. You can activate them whenever you want in a job.

In truth, i'd say that perhaps if we adjusted how easy it was to get into force and then also adjusted the numbers then perhaps it might be ok.

However, as it stands this is far too big a drop in power for the supposed 'strongest' buff possible on site. For the amount of effort it takes to enter it...its just not worth it

This isn't even worth technically using as plot. What made it worthy if using in plot was the fact that the stat boost were a decent amount, giving you the full feel of Force. Now the star boost alone only rival that of a C-Rank stat buff. And for note I fully agree with Nimbus.

Force has always been like Exodia. There's no way to pull it off but it was always super good. Now it's not even that. It's like Exodia if you had to keep Exodia in your hand for 4 turns. Like the illegitimate child of Final Countdown and Exodia.

Third gen slayers are my favorite slayers and force was all they had going for them; and with it's nerf they aren't worth anything anymore. Force is supposed to be a rare super power up. Now it's a rare decent buff. That isn't right.

I think you're misremembering it. It wasn't 100% stat increase... It was that it put it up to the next range.

From my magic (Where I copied the first gen, like how every slayer should have copied it for reference.)

enter force after consuming enough of the element
-The ability to consume their element to regain MP
-A resistance to their element shown by the following chart:
2 ranks above: 0%
1 rank above: 10%
Same rank: 25%
1 rank below: 30%
2 ranks below: 50%

-First Gen. Dragon Slayers have learned the magic from the Great Dragon of their respective element.
Dragon Force:
A Slayer must consume at least 70% magical energy from his respective element in order to achieve Force, however, their total magical energy must equal to 150% or higher. In other words, the Slayer can still use magic, but if it does not equal to at least 150% magical energy after consuming 70% magical energy, they must consume an appropriate amount to reach it. If the Slayer can achieve this within the next 5 posts, Force is activated. If they cannot, the magical energy is rapidly consumed by the Slayer's body, causing any magical energy that was above their maximum to go down to the max. The Slayer can then try to do this again, if the opportunity is there.
Dragon Force highly increases the power of the Dragon Slayer's magic, physical endurance, speed, and strength. (Dragon Skin: Body is covered in scales of their respective element) It puts all stats into the next range on the character scaling.
The spell power of each rank is increased to 150%.
In Dragon Force, the Slayer gains an aura of their element that engulfs their body. Physical attacks deal status effects from their respective element. ( Frostbite, Burn, Poison, etc. )
During Dragon Force the Slayer does not lose any mp from casting spells, but after it wears off is left with 5% mp.
Lasts for 7 posts.

The physical stats increase hardly means anything seeing as the only one we really have is speed and you just got boosted by at least 5% (Each rank gives 25% extra, this gives a 30% boost), and damage which is a 5 damage drop for H ranks, with the worst being for D ranks who lost 3.5 damage.

This is actually a buff because most stats are not rank based but based on the users magic. There isn't a reflex stat, or a strength stat that's based on ranks. No, this instead is an increase to those stats that we don't have general numbers for.

*cough only a 20%buff cause taking 10% boost from slayers into a 30% cough" so still a nerf

In terms of 'physical damage' I preferred it where it boosted your physical attacks so they did your rank in magic damage rather than the melee rules.

E.g. for a H rank it goes from like 35 to 140hp damage.

Of course they will still likely rely on magic, but that's boosted by 150% and if built properly for melee can be devastating and thats fine because its damn near impossible to enter and its meant to be the ultimate buff

Overall all it has been nerfed. It seems more subtle but there has been a decrease in power

As far as I think I do not think being a third gen is worth it. Especially for Demon and God slayers. The amount of money paid just to get the lacrima is a lot. I do think the nerf is a big minus.

For amount of spells you eating(in events more often then not have to ask ally since everyone makes anti-slayer stuff without any minus) can can get more buffs from a single spell or a UA(in some cases a lineage).

As shu said as well people a lot of slayers already add status/elemental effects to there strikes with UA don't they? Also didn't even clarify what these status do; if do then would also effect other status with name poison, burn and etc.(what status effect could wind even have btw)?

As for third gen no real point in getting the lacrima from it since can probably do even more with a normal secondary.

Only real buff thats worth it is the 150% spell power; which while useful spells can still be dodged and what really stops someone in a event from dashing until its over? Pvp wise its kinda of a so what? Like if someone pvps a slayer of same element should be natural to be  disadvantaged(though probably not cause as said before the easily performed tech of making anti slayer stuff).Socials no one really cares what happens in them.

Anyway to wrap up would like to see it changed back though I know for sure it wont happen cause popular to be anti slayer since there overrated(yet still need to be nerfed).

Can we change this back please? Look I have the original stuff in my magic profile and if that was already approved I for one am not feeling like letting a thing that is almost impossible to get during pvp off anyway get reduced. Granted I don't do pvp it's more of the fact that this was not anything that was broken on site nor did it need fixed. There are far more pressing things to deal with aside from bending slayers in general over every five seconds and trying to nerf them or something. If this reduction does stand then Slayers should be able to hit force any time with no effort needed as an extra UA.

I get the sentiment Mashyuu, but that's a little extreme. If they could activate this level of power at will that would be something that needs nerfing. Its not weak as it is...its just not strong enough to warrant as big a drawbacks as it has currently.

If staff want these to be the only buffs given (though i'd rather it be higher. Say 50% instead of 30%) then they should make it easier to enter force, but certainly not a freebie.

A single UA can passively buff all your stats. Damage, speed, endurance and maybe something else by 50% at C rank passively. So to have one that has to go on cool down for free isn't out of the question if they want to reduce it's buff effects.

You can say that....
The Force isn't strong with these ones?


And no, Mashyuu.. A single UA will not buff all stats. UAs like that would never be allowed. A UA to buff 1... maaaaaaaybe 2 stats up to 50%, yes. But to every stat, no.

Alright, seeing how this is so difficult for you all.

Admin wrote:Dragon Force highly increases the power of the Dragon Slayer's magic, physical endurance, speed, and strength by 30% rather than just 10%.

You're force increased 20% in the aspects of all physical enhancements. There was no nerfing. I don't know where you got that from.

Also, it takes Hybrid Slayers 35% rather than 70% of their magic to enter Force.

Alyia, just from a strength standpoint, its a nerf. Where as I usually have 10 melee, a simple buff of 20% gives me 12, not 15. So yes this is a nerf please for those who have stated here, and others who probably want it as well, please put it back or make it easier to enter. There is no need for either it being this much of a pain to go into, or this low. Hell it only takes a spell and a UA to get the same results, and it be so much easier. Either buff it back to where it was or higher, or reduce the cost to enter.

Gonna say this now that I got help to realize; everyone is complaining about free buffs.

No other magic gets free buffs, just Slayers and Celestial Spirirt magic. 

I was gonna make seperate thread for this(still might) though gonna say here.

I suggest we get rid of slayer buffs or just leave the consumption and force.There is no reason slayer magic should have this advantage over other magics except a reason to buy vip for demon/god which is apparently needed. Correct me if I'm wrong though the reason collectively believed for Golden Zodiac and Slayer positions is so that we don't have half the people on site be slayers/have 5 differrent Leo spirits. Though for some reason we gave them free buffs and now people believe they deserve them. You don't see WS,ES,RS or Coming Storms getting bonuses for being a position holder. 

For Zodiac keys Id like to suggest either lowering WC needed for immaculate Summon(its 6.5k words compared to Zodiacs 1k and Zodiacs are stronger).

As for force if leave that and consumption Id suggest moving up physical bonus to 65% or 50% since would equal/be near max amount of buff with slayer stuff and remove the status effect part so can leave to the person(since as said before some elements dont make since with physical strike status effects).


Edit:Forgot to say with Zodiacs/Immaculate to make either lower WC on latter or have same damage.

TL;DR, stopped afyer Nao's post. (Thank you for trying Nao!) Gonna take a guess at this since I've seen people talking in chats about this topic.

People whining about losing a small amount of numbers in PYSICAL stats. Numbers that only matter in pvp. Pvp, which has no use other than a fight between members; which has no rewards and is wholly up to thise involved in how to treat it.

Wonder how right I am without reading anything past Nao's post! If I'm right you all should feel ashamed of yourself, and take a look at yourselves and your reasons for wanting to even have a slayer magic.

Anything more toxic about this topic will start to receive warnings. You may be lost a small amount of damage at D rank, okay but at high ranks a 30% is better than a 'rank above' with the current numbers for melee.

Have a good night, be more friendly, go rp and enjoy yourselves and stop worrying about numbers games when you should be focused on plot and having fun.

If it didn't matter it shouldn't have been changed. Period.

Now before everyone begins to roast me worse than they normally do, these are just my opinions and how I see things. I'm a 1st Gen Slayer myself, and am willing to see both sides of the coin. I'm more for the changes obviously and my lean towards that since it's my opinion. That applies for every post, just an opinion, so please no hard feelings? Kay? Kay ^.^ Chances are I won't get a chance to see the replies to my comments anyways.

Nimbus wrote:As some of us already know, Dragon/God/Demon Force has been Nerfed.  The nearly impossible to activate form for all slayers, that used to amplify stats by 100% now buffs mages 30%... a 70% drop in stats, and yet it still requires a mage to achieve 150% MP via consumption to activate.  Physical Attacks no longer deal Rank damage, they now only buff physical strikes with elemental effects.  A feat most of us achieve with a simple Unique Ability Considering a handful of Free Abilities have been given with the rules alone to Slayers, I doubt even with said simple Unique Ability that they would catch up with current Slayer abilities. Not unless they want to sacrifice UA's, or item abilities which... I really hope others don't consider doing..  

Albeit we do still get 150% spell power, which is a lot.  I'm uncertain if everyone feels that this is enough That's 50% more Magic Power! It takes about 3 or 4 of the users best spells to get rid of that first 50%, and that's without any MP gains..  Keep in mind that at the end of Force, which God knows how any of us managed to activate with that 150% required MP and the limiting Regeneration Rules, we are left with barely anything... 5% MP after 7 posts 7 posts of pretty much going all out while the opponent refrains from attacking so they can conserve magic power, those posts are going to take quite a while.. Worth it  10% if you're a 3rd Generation, which you PAID MONEY Some also paid money for Artifacts before they became available for jewels. Whether or not that be good or bad is up to the reader, but I feel that should be said x3 To be.  Why would anyone even bother being a 3rd Generation now that Force has been nerfed?  It's way more beneficial to just have a second element now, making 3rd Gens obsolete. I can't seem to find the part where you get Effect Control abilities that your element provides. Or how you have no need to consume anything to hit it while being 3rd Gen. Or how you can spend literally 100% of the MP you have, leaving you at 50% MP, and still be able to hit force with 3rd Gen, which in this case, if you spent that much MP, I doubt you have much less to lose.

I feel that the staff should just sit back on this one and just see how much of the community is against this change.  All those who feel that this nerf should be changed back to how it was, please reply...

Shard wrote:In truth, i'd say that perhaps if we adjusted how easy it was to get into force and then also adjusted the numbers then perhaps it might be ok.

However, as it stands this is far too big a drop in power for the supposed 'strongest' buff possible on site. For the amount of effort it takes to enter it...its just not worth it B-But... I just heard that this can be recovered with just 1 UA ability! D: Is everything I know a lie!? *Flips table* . In all seriousness, the number drop is all that I can imagine being changed. Not much else has been affected, and I don't think that 40% made that big a difference. And if it did, well, it an be recovered with a UA : D

Tatsumi Yamato wrote:This isn't even worth technically using as plot But what about Ana's post? pwp It promised me that these numbers don't have to be this way during socials! You know... Where most plot happens?. What made it worthy if using in plot was the fact that the stat boost were a decent amount, giving you the full feel of Force That 40% gives you a full feel of Force?. Now the star boost alone only rival that of a C-Rank stat buff Then make the C rank Stat buff and you get it back! : D. And for note I fully agree with Nimbus.

Kirahunter wrote:Force has always been like Exodia. There's no way to pull it off but it was always super good. Now it's not even that. It's like Exodia if you had to keep Exodia in your hand for 4 turns. Like the illegitimate child of Final Countdown and Exodia I like to think of 3rd Gen Force activation like a Winged Dragon of Ra. Where at 50% MP, you can take the Force without consumptionn, since there is not much to lose left for extra power x3.

Third gen slayers are my favorite slayers and force was all they had going for them Damn right actually now that I think about it owo... They still do have very easy activation though, because 50% MP is very low compared to consuming 70% MP and having 150% MP ^.^; and with it's nerf they aren't worth anything anymore The immunities and easy activation has yet to be touched! owo. Force is supposed to be a rare super power up. Now it's a rare decent buff. That isn't right.

Shard wrote:In terms of 'physical damage' I preferred it where it boosted your physical attacks so they did your rank in magic damage rather than the melee rules.

E.g. for a H rank it goes from like 35 to 140hp damage.

Of course they will still likely rely on magic, but that's boosted by 150% and if built properly for melee can be devastating and thats fine because its damn near impossible to enter and its meant to be the ultimate buff

Not... A bad suggestion actually... x3 Maybe..

Eh that's really all that I have time for. As for what I think of it, well... I do admit that it IS hard to get into Force mode, even as a 1st Gen. But this is normally use din EXTREME cases, and the main objective of Slayers is to overpower a certain element, not hit force. It's just a little bonus when all else seems to fail for the Slayer, so of course hitting it will be hard. In the end though, it is just a last resort for a Slayer, hence why it is normally hard to get (Just the fact that third Gen slayers can activate it almost at free will seems quite... Special. But, eh. They paid real money for it like Shu said). Overall, the nerf was not as heavy as it could have been, considering there are perfect Effect controls to certain effects. I read somewhere here that those effects have yet to be put to an attribute. Imagination :3 That's all I will say about that. Overall, I don't really mind these changes, and that is coming from a 1st Gen Slayer, who has yet to even hit force for the duration of him being a Slayer. That is all, and nothing I said is personal, but just merely my opinions x3

As the previous rules state:

Admin wrote:It puts all stats into the next range on the character scaling.

We no longer have character scaling. As there are no given base stats for people nor do we even do stats for players. So when the number 100% is given how fast is your slayer moving now, no one knows.

As for the reasoning behind the 30% we contemplated the 50% but with all of the other buffs that people have through their UAs and their spells, which by the way mainly buffs their strength and speed, the 30% is a reasonable number because it is more than double the buff that slayers had before activating force. The reason we did not do 50% Was because when you look at buffs within magic very few people get to even have 30% buffs for all physical involvement. 50% would be too high of a number for that.

Finally, we can't always win, either we give slayers what they want and the rest of the community complains or we make it fair for most of the community and the minority complains.

However, it is easier access to Force for hybrid slayers as they now only have to reach 35% rather than 70%.

Just wanna say.... stop acting like America. Government wont cater to the small amount that whines the loudest.  Obviously staff had justified reasons for changing what they did. Considering alot of staff ARE SLAYERS!! Zero is right. No other magic type gets free buffs. How about I complain about that! I want a FREE 30% buff! And on top if that, like Aiy stated, these numbers are only strictly enforced in PVP. So unless you planning to fight everyone and anything then chill out. Everyone would be 10 times happier if they just Accepted the rules instead of acting like entitled brats who think they are automatically right. Sorry if this offends anyone, not trying to be as mean as it sounds. forgive my rude behavior lol im drinking and am not myself

I'm simply going to say that this may or may not have happened at all had the problems that occurred the last week not have been there at all. Surely we can all act like mature adults (even if some of you aren't adults yet) and just shut up and listen to what people have to say! ^.^

So let's start with this; I'm not getting into the argument of whether or not the numbers were fair. Everyone has their opinions on the matter and despite what you all actually THINK complaining will do, it won't get you anything but less respect from some staff for your immature approach. This is true though, people have their issues and they have their rights to express them. However, when you directly or even indirectly insult someone for trying to discuss their side with you, you are well.. Let's just be blunt about it; a moron. If you expect to be heard, show the other person or persons the same respect they deserve. Put yourself in their shoes having to deal with the problem and ending up being yelled at and disrespected by people whom you may have just been joking with the other day! It's no earned to think you would need to raise an argument out of this.

Most people have been in the admins shoes; trying to make things fair for others and needing to try and hear everyone's thoughts and opinions, suggestions and criticism. However when you shove it down their throats, you get back what you dish out. I have read through and have seen what people are saying. Some of you are right, others are just trying to help to solve issues and possible misunderstandings so this topic doesn't require hazmat to quarantine it for high, concentrated, and radiating toxic levels. When you look back at the rules, whether you like them or not, you have to try and see it through the others eyes and see why they may have made it that way, why they thought this was a fair number. Several times Alyia has defended what she and the other admins discussed on what they thought was fair. So if you got a nerf, big deal! Pick up your big boy pants and move on with it. There's always good inside the bad, and you just need to think it over, reread some peoples replies here and try to see what they are wanting to get across. In time, this will all be something people laugh over (I hope, or Imma come find yo ass and curb stomp your face in! Teehee~ jk)

So I'll leave my reply at this last statement. Y'all are fully capable and rational beings who don't need to get angered of upset with what gets screwed with. If you so happen to dislike it, you're free to gladly voice why, but do so in a manner where you can be looked at as a person, not some raging maniac foaming at the mouth with rabies because you lost 10% on a buff.

So with that, take some time to think over what I've said and hopefully take into consideration everything that was said here, and in previous comments. Keep your mind open and your points of view unbiased as can be (not assuming anyone is, that's purely for the sake of the point of view standpoint). And win that, this bunny is gonna hop on over to the rabbit hole for sleep!

To be honest, as long as you enjoy having the prestige of being a slayer and enjoy your magic, why does a change like this bother you?  People already know PvP is a joke and any attempts at PvP are simply laughed at.  So let's just take a chill pill and drink tea.