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    Stats and stuff

    Poll

    Should we have stats?

    [ 3 ]
    Stats and stuff I_vote_lcap20%Stats and stuff I_vote_rcap [20%] 
    [ 12 ]
    Stats and stuff I_vote_lcap80%Stats and stuff I_vote_rcap [80%] 

    Total Votes: 15
    Thelonious
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    Post by Thelonious 18th May 2016, 6:55 pm

    So looking around I was wondering, why don't we, as a Roleplaying site, have a stat system? Do we just not want one? Or is it to much of a boher to cook one up? Or something else? Also I was bored and wrote a rough draft for such a thing because curiosity and boredom:

    Stats and stuff rough draft:

    So yeah it could obviously use some tweaking and such... anywho what do y'all think?


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    Ninetails Derpfox

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    Stats and stuff Empty Re: Stats and stuff

    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 18th May 2016, 7:06 pm

    I'm against this. Stats convert the PvP experience into an absolute numbers game, moreso than it already is, and takes away from any skill there was there to begin with.

    This site stands on the foundation of your character growing through innovative plot, and fun stories. While the current ranking up system is weight down, the dead weight being only 2 ways of getting EXP on a regular basis, it does have room for changes, like the much talked about training threads.

    If you turn this process into a level system, then it becomes an MMO, and quite frankly... this is not an MMO. I prefer being able to say "this D Rank can destroy me" or walk up to an H Rank and be able to destroy him. If we use levels, then there's no doubt on who would win and who would loose.

    As for resistances, there's plenty of resistances on site as is. Armour takes 50% of the damage of an attack, and then reduces the damage you personally receive even further. If the attack was a certain rank, the damage is cut by 50% before even hitting the armour. Using that, there's actually ways to work your build to where you're 100% godly in PvP...


    TL;DR Version:
    I'm against adding stats because:
    - It takes the meaning out of actual RP
    - We don't need them
    - PvP will become more of a numbers game than it already is
    Knight of Zero
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    Stats and stuff Empty Re: Stats and stuff

    Post by Knight of Zero 18th May 2016, 7:40 pm

    Agreeing with niyol on this; would take out a bit of freedom on the site.


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    Casey Nightwind
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    Post by Casey Nightwind 18th May 2016, 9:04 pm

    I agree Adding stats would only hurt the creative freedom we have on the site.


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    Stats and stuff ViI0500
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    Thelonious
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    Post by Thelonious 18th May 2016, 11:31 pm

    Hmm... well I was thinking that stats would give a more concrete idea of what can and can't be done... I've been on multiple sites both that use stats and don't, this argument that it would detract from creative freedom while writing isn't true. In my experience, stats have helped pvp much more than hurt it... but it seems I'm in a minority here... also no offense to anyone here, but that argument also sounds a lot like bigotry. In a rp sense they wouldn't be much use but as for pvp stats provide the concrete details needed for what one can or cannot do.


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    Ninetails Derpfox

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    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 18th May 2016, 11:42 pm

    Thelonious wrote:Hmm... well I was thinking that stats would give a more concrete idea of what can and can't be done... I've been on multiple sites both that use stats and don't, this argument that it would detract from creative freedom while writing isn't true. In my experience, stats have helped pvp much more than hurt it... but it seems I'm in a minority here... also no offense to anyone here, but that argument also sounds a lot like bigotry. In a rp sense they wouldn't be much use but as for pvp stats provide the concrete details needed for what one can or cannot do.

    This concrete is the issue. It doesn't allow for the individual to express heightened tactical ability; being able to quickly think and jump out of the way of an incoming attack and then quickly counter with their own. Why? Because the individual's speed stat is far too low. Either that or their evasiveness stat is too low, or the opponent's accuracy stat is too high.

    The on site PvP system, in my opinion, is a mess which I'm sure many would agree with, and possible just as many would disagree with. But weighing it down with numbers isn't a preferable solution.
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    Post by Thelonious 18th May 2016, 11:57 pm

    I see what you're getting at @Niyol, but at least for pvp, there needs to be that concrete. No way in heck is a D rank mage going to be able to out speed or power an A rank. The way I was imagining it however, was that slight increases would help or hurt those who are in closer proximity to each other like say a D rank fighting a D rank or C rank. But that's why you can train them. To make your character stronger. As for story purposes, it allows for greater character growth and more in depth abilities. Also stats help tacticians much much more than hurt.


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 19th May 2016, 12:10 am

    The rank gap is not that big and clever rping should be what matters in any situation on site. If a D rank is foolish enough to go up against an A rank without some kind of plan then that is there fault. We have talked about stats MANY times in the past (seriously I can think of at least five) and have introduced 'guideline stats' for things like damage and speed. However, what we don't want is concrete 'you have this much strength so this is all you can do' or 'aha i have a higher strength stat so in this situation i win'. It removes a sense of inventiveness out of it.

    PVP is not and should not be the main aspect on site. Its fun and can work well for plot, but doing it purely for ranking up or whatever seems silly. Everything on site should be about plot and story writing. We are a roleplaying website not an RPG.

    Introducing a stat system at the beginning of the site is easy. Introducing one once its been around for years? Much harder. Especially as people buff themselves a lot and thus staff would have to take into account all those buffs and see if it still balances out with 'concrete' numbers

    Besides PVP and PVE should be no different on site. They are all plot based things to develop your characters and personal stories. Just because you are fighting another player rather than an NPC shouldn't suddenly restrict your character by rules of 'strength, speed' etc. It doesn't make sense from an IC perspective.


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    Post by Thelonious 19th May 2016, 12:20 am

    That was a rather good explanation... thanks Zack ^-^


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 19th May 2016, 12:33 am

    No problem. Happy to help. Keep up with the suggestions though as its good to see what people think of the site and get opinions (other than my own XD) as I seem to be putting them up all the time atm. lol


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    Post by Eris 19th May 2016, 6:07 am

    Speed Demon Zack wrote:
    Besides PVP and PVE should be no different on site. They are all plot based things to develop your characters and personal stories. Just because you are fighting another player rather than an NPC shouldn't suddenly restrict your character by rules of 'strength, speed' etc. It doesn't make sense from an IC perspective.


    Spoiler:



    I've been saying this for ages. Lovely to see others confirm the similar/same thoughts..


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    Stats and stuff NvVyM98

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    Post by Haru-senpai 19th May 2016, 7:47 am

    I agree with SDZ. Fighting is fighting, shouldn't matter if it's against an NPC or a PC.


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    Stats and stuff Rose

    Thelonious
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    Post by Thelonious 19th May 2016, 10:54 am

    To me it just seems that story based fighting is too choreographed... I'm not a big fan of writing choreographed fights is all...


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 19th May 2016, 11:29 am

    All fights are but dances whether stats are applied or not. Stats in my opinion would make it more choreographed and restricted because you would be limited to what your stats allow rather than having the freedom to do cool stuff that comes to mind.

    If it become a numbers game then that takes all skill out of it. OR at least reduces it significantly


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    Post by Thelonious 19th May 2016, 12:11 pm

    I guess we're of differing opinions then because the way I see it is that those kinds of restrictions allow for more creativity in how you can defeat an opponent.


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    Post by Kite Wilhelm 19th May 2016, 1:36 pm

    I actually already have a stat system that myself and another member hammered out that can be implemented by those who have been on the site for quite some time, it would even benefit H ranks to go on missions to continue to gain EXP. If anyone would like to see it then feel free to let me know.


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    Stats and stuff Gvf4gD8
    Raiza
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    Post by Raiza 19th May 2016, 7:57 pm

    in terms of stats, I'd love a rough estimation of what a D-rank, unbuffed can do, and a general increase per rank (Like we did... for speed?) That way no one is blown out the water if you try to lift something heavy, and go "wait, is that possible in this verse? without 1502580x buffs to strength?"


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    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 19th May 2016, 8:07 pm

    Kite Wilhelm wrote:I actually already have a stat system that myself and another member hammered out that can be implemented by those who have been on the site for quite some time, it would even benefit H ranks to go on missions to continue to gain EXP. If anyone would like to see it then feel free to let me know.  

    Regardless of if anyone wants to see it or not, I'd rather you do put it up on suggestions. The development team, regardless of if we say it openly or not, relies on the input of the community. It's how we find out what's broken, and what's in general not working at all. So any and all suggestions are welcome, which should be expected.
    Thelonious
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    Post by Thelonious 19th May 2016, 9:05 pm

    Raiza wrote:in terms of stats, I'd love a rough estimation of what a D-rank, unbuffed can do, and a general increase per rank  (Like we did... for speed?) That way no one is blown out the water if you try to lift something heavy, and go "wait, is that possible in this verse? without 1502580x buffs to strength?"


    Hence why I'm asking about stats. We don't have to have a numbers system if everyone is so gung-ho against it but I still think we should have clearly defined cans and can'ts of what one is capable of at certain ranks. Otherwise why have a rank system in the first place?


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    Post by weretiger5411 19th May 2016, 9:13 pm

    Thelonious wrote:
    Raiza wrote:in terms of stats, I'd love a rough estimation of what a D-rank, unbuffed can do, and a general increase per rank  (Like we did... for speed?) That way no one is blown out the water if you try to lift something heavy, and go "wait, is that possible in this verse? without 1502580x buffs to strength?"


    Hence why I'm asking about stats. We don't have to have a numbers system if everyone is so gung-ho against it but I still think we should have clearly defined cans and can'ts of what one is capable of at certain ranks. Otherwise why have a rank system in the first place?

    Actually now that you bring this up why? I mean shouldn't the stats to base info on should be around the average human strength? or speed? or how long they can hold their breath? Because now that I look at it, why should you have magic and all of a sudden be faster then a normal person. Yes as someone who has buffs toward speed in your magic, lineage, or equipment then that's fine, but how does magic in general increase a person's overall speed without specifying effects?

    In any case if your really looking for stats to base your % increases on then look up the measurements for what the average human can do in what your looking at (how much they can lift for example), do the calculations, and you have your answer.


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