Tertiary Magic

This might get a little long and confusing, but bear with me.

Tertiary magic is useless crap, there's really no use trying to hide it, it's useless, and no one really goes out of their way to get their hands on Tertiary Magic. What I'm writing about here is an effort to revamp the Tertiary Magic system.

Currently, Tertiary Magic is little more than useless fluff, however, I feel that there would be many ways to change this. I think there's two ways we can go with the Tertiary magic System, both of which are explained below.

1.) Currently, you can only get Tertiary magic once you reach SS-Rank, which isn't a very smart idea. After all, the most you can do with Tertiary Magic is make people fart at will, which most SS-Rank Mages won't go out of their way to do. So, I propose the we lower the Tertiary Magic Rank requirement down to, say, B-Rank, and make it more useful. However, if you want to make it useful, you'd have to pay. I'll explain more below.

1.) Offensive Magic- 200,000 Jewels
2.) Defensive Magic- 150,000 Jewels
3.) Buff Magic- 175,000 Jewels
4.) Debuff Magic- 175,000 Jewels
5.) Lacrima- However much the Lacrima itself costs+ 50,000 Jewels
6.) Healing Magic- 175,000 Jewels
7.) If a magic falls into two categories, you take the cost of the more expensive category and add 25,000 Jewels

This system would make Tertiary Magic much more desirable, and, the Jewel cost and rank requirement would keep some people from obtaining it (you obviously need to have your secondary magic first).

2.) My next proposal is that we lower the Tertiary Magic requirement down to D-Rank, however, we would keep it as useless as it already is. And since Secondary Magic would be required to obtain Tertiary Magic, it would keep a multitude of newer members from obtaining it, at least until they learn site mechanics. Also, I feel like Tertiary Magic should have a slight fee, perhaps 20,000 Jewels.

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My first proposal clearly revamps the system more, and would require some sort of addition to the Magic Shop thread, however, my second proposal is much simpler. I'll leave it up to you guys to decide whether I'm being insane, or this is actually a good idea.

Thanks in advance,

~Skyllon

Or just keep it as it is, free to use, not useful in combat (I mean really, how many magics do you need for offense?), and then make it available at C or B rank. OR just add RP spell cantrips that you can actually include in your primary and secondary magics and have them available at any rank. OR we can have both.

Honestly though, I don't feel we need it to actually be of any use in combat. It's meant to be a fluff thing because fluff things are cool. Not everything has to be about combat. The fact that fluff magic is only made available at S rank is ridiculous though, so tertiary magic should be made available at C, B, or A rank. I personally feel that B is the best option.

Tertiary magic is a magic purposely made to be nothing but a magic for simple tasks and does not involve battle at all. We already have primary and secondary magic to fill the shoes of what you are asking already so this won't become a thing to have. There is enough ways of getting magic that people have at their disposal really.

Also magic has always been something people can make however they want to make it because we try to keep things creative with it all being made as magic as following how MP is used for spells, etc so having people buy different magic types to have a magic wouldn't work either.

And allowing people to get a magic that does nothing but show off earlier is something that could happen but really Tertiary magic probably won't be a thing seeing how it really is useless in most cases. Also most people who can have a Tertiary magic do not even make it because it is not worth it. We are still looking over things that we need to look at as Devs and staff and this can get added but don't expect this to become something like a 3rd magic source for fighting or anything battle related.

The first suggestion was just something I wanted to throw out there, but I truly believe the second one should happen. Maybe keep it free, maybe add a fee, I just think having Tertiary only be available at SS-Rank is ridiculous, because most SS-Ranked Mages don't even want to waste their time on a Tertiary. I personally think C-Rank or B-Rank would be the best time to unlock Tertiary magic because, I mean, let's be honest, a lot of us won't even reach SS-Rank.

Most people won't even use Tertiary magic at all. Its pretty worthless and will probably be removed as an option seeing as those who can use it do not use it. It shows that it is not worth being a thing really.

I personally would use it if I could, but I do think removing it as an option is better than just having this random thing that nobody actually uses.

As cool as it would be to make anything sparkly, I ain't waiting until SS-Rank to do it.

Firstly, it isn't really long, and I see your points but I think this kinda doesn't fall right.

Whilst I agree with your first statement, we should lower it to B or A rank, but I don't think we should pay for a specific type of magic (offense, defense, etc). I just think we should be able to make some sort of "secondary secondary" magic, a very simple magic which basically follows the rules of Signature spells in terms of simplicity, like no spell can have more than 1 ability. However I think a rule should be that you can't have Lacrima for your tertiary magic, as that could technically make someone a 3-way hybrid slayer, or a 3rd gen hybrid slayer, which will require way more rules on and that'd just be straight ballsy op, so I gotta go with a no for the whole lacrima thing. However I do think Celestial Spirit magic would be good for a Tertiary magic, as all it costs really is for you to have a keyring, and then you summon up some shiz. Either way, I agree with the first statement 80%, just drop the pricing for the magic.

For your second statement I agree as well, it seems like basically Tertiary magic atm is a way for GMs to brag saying "ha, i have tertiary magic," but they themselves know how useless it really is. Honestly, people already "use" tertiary magic at simple D rank already, if someone has fire magic they'll make their finger into a lighter, whilst that isn't a unique ability or spell. Does anyone say anything? No, because no one really cares. It seems like the point of Tertiary Magic is again - something to brag about, because honestly if you REALLY wanted to do something like "make sparkles in the air" you would just do it, because no one would jump on you if you did.

As for MY opinions on Tertiary magic I wouldn't say abide to what Skyllon has to say, I'm simply saying what he said in this post is actually very valid (except for the cost thing). Me personally I'd just add some sort of little side note to the rules for a "tertiary magic" saying that anyone can do it, but it must be out of combat and it can't conflict with the magic. Basically you can do whatever you want, you just can't be a fire magic forcing the water to move or whatever, and you can't use it in combat because that'd get exploited way too easily, and it's not a spell. For Example "Player X snapped his finger, which created a burst of fireworks directly in front of him, which would effectively blind Player Y, Afterward, Player X used his fireball spell and threw it at Player Y". Here player X is a fire mage, but used something that wasn't a spell in his magic effectively in combat with no mana cost, therefore I digress.

Anyone can do it
Can't be in combat
Can't conflict with magic

That is all

That's actually a really good idea. Tertiary Magic should just officially be something everyone can do by default, as long as it's related to their current magic, because, come on, we all do it anyway. I feel like either,

A.) Anyone should be able to use it.
B.) The Rank requirement should be lowered to C-Rank or B-Rank
C.) Or it should just be removed completely, because, let's be honest, we're all still gonna do it anyway.

Id say put it at H cause teritary seems more like a, well might as well do whatever you want with it thing. That way accessible but not spamable,plus a third magic your character can use seems overall kind useless, like already have two diff magics can use during battle.

I wanna make people fart at will.

I vote for 2nd option.

Almyra Bys wrote:Or just keep it as it is, free to use, not useful in combat (I mean really, how many magics do you need for offense?), and then make it available at C or B rank. OR just add RP spell cantrips that you can actually include in your primary and secondary magics and have them available at any rank. OR we can have both.

Honestly though, I don't feel we need it to actually be of any use in combat. It's meant to be a fluff thing because fluff things are cool. Not everything has to be about combat. The fact that fluff magic is only made available at S rank is ridiculous though, so tertiary magic should be made available at C, B, or A rank. I personally feel that B is the best option.

This.

Also Sky, making people fart at will can be extremely useful magic, especially as a Fire Mage....

To be honest, since Tertiary magic is simply "For show" they should be able to be unlocked at D/C rank TBH.

If anything.. I would rather see the following:

D Rank: Primary Magic Unlocked
C Rank: Cantrips (renaming tertiary magic) unlocked
B Rank: Secondary Magic Unlocked

I'd almost rather see that to be completely honest.

Cirven wrote:Most people won't even use Tertiary magic at all. Its pretty worthless and will probably be removed as an option seeing as those who can use it do not use it. It shows that it is not worth being a thing really.

I wouldn't assume that most people won't use it. You can't really judge until it's made available to them. I know I'd use it for sure. How many people can actually use it that are very active in RP? I'd say lower the requirements and then see who uses it because with it only currently available to SS rank, you really only have a tiny sample size of the community.

Zerodude wrote:Id say put it at H cause teritary seems more like a, well might as well do whatever you want with it thing. That way accessible but not spamable,plus a third magic your character can use seems overall kind useless, like already have two diff magics can use during battle.

Making something available at H rank makes it very inaccessible, considering you need VIP in order to be H rank.

Almyra Bys wrote:

Cirven wrote:Most people won't even use Tertiary magic at all. Its pretty worthless and will probably be removed as an option seeing as those who can use it do not use it. It shows that it is not worth being a thing really.

I wouldn't assume that most people won't use it. You can't really judge until it's made available to them. I know I'd use it for sure. How many people can actually use it that are very active in RP? I'd say lower the requirements and then see who uses it because with it only currently available to SS rank, you really only have a tiny sample size of the community.

The reason why it will probably be scrapped is because of the fact that Tertiary magic is something that is completely RP based and most of the time are things a mage can already do with their magic in RP circumstances. Like lighting their finger in flames for a light or something similar.

It was something basically made to give something more to being a GM or higher rank basically to make them more special but it really is something that does not need to be made a system because we can RP being able to do these small feats without having to get a magic graded by staff. I used to have Cirv light his fingers on and off in flames all the time for fun. This wasn't a spell or anything but just something he would do randomly to show off which is what Tertiary magic is. Fluff that can be done outside of battle to show off. It really is not needed as a system.

I figured Tertiary was something extra. More cantrips and such that don't directly relate to their primary or secondary magics. I mean look at Siren's, for instance. Hers is all about making contracts and such, and not related at all to her Earth DeS magic. That's the sort of cool stuff it should be used for. I don't see why RP only things should be removed, RP is the point of the site. It shouldn't only be about PvP or PvE.

I'm going to just go ahead and put this out there.

If you're looking at Canon. Makarov the guild master of fairy tail can use Light magic, Titan magic, Fire magic, and other magics. 

It's clear that a wizard's ability to use magic just grows and he can learn many. Of course they might not be all the same strength, or have the same time devoted to them. At any rate that's my thing for making Tertiary magic's useful.

However if you're going to keep them as fluff why not give them to everyone at C rank? It is the dumbest thing to keep something so useless for the top like 1% (hahaha political joke) of the site. 

So if you're going to make it useful take the model provided by Skylion. If you are keeping it useless then drop the rank requirement to C rank. If you don't want to do any of those then remove it, and let people have more abilities that let them do silly stuff with their magic.

I don't think this game needs to make Tertiary magic into even more combat magic.
Primary and Secondary are good enough, to be honest.
If anything, Tertiary should just remain limited to nice and RP magic.

I am planning to make my Tertiary Magic something which focuses on disguises. It's something which wouldn't really be of any use in combat since those disguises don't actually affect my abilities (and in fact can leave me weaker than when I'm not using them) but which would still be useful for if I had to remain undetected or something like that. So basically it's mostly a cosmetic thing which still manages to have its uses without being combat related.

However I would not be able to do that if I could only just use cantrips based on my Primary and/or Secondary magic.

I don't think scrapping the Tertiary Magic is a good idea. One of the main reasons why people don't use it is because it takes so long before they get it in the first place. It's a bit of a stretch to claim that Tertiary magic is unwanted when for so long it's only been accessible by a limited group of people who as part of the requirements to use Tertiary magic in the first place have become powerful enough that they've got other interesting things to focus on.

It would probably be better if we just dropped the requirements for Tertiary Magic to some low rank, and maybe also use the idea that instead of limiting Tertiary Magic to a couple of set in stone spells just have it function as a general description of what kind of cantrips you can use and what theme they're focused on. For example in my case my Tertiary Magic would just be called Disguise Magic with as description 'this mage can alter their appearance to match that of other people/humanoids. However these disguises can't grant buffs or new abilities and if the mage uses magic or actively fights the disguise will dissipate.'

Tertiary magic as it is beyond heavily limited.
I've sat and stared at the system for months and I can honestly not think of a single thing I could do with it that wouldn't have SOME form of combat application.

Diguises - If I know the person I could disguise myself as someone they wouldn't want to attack suddenly and that might throw off their attacks
Little flickers of light on my finger tips - Distraction
Make someone fart at will - Do this to a fire mage and potential 'boom'
Hero wind - Slight gust of wind could part a dust cloud enough to give you an edge over those who can't do hero wind.

As such tertiary magic as it is...would be really limited like 'change eye colour' or 'makeup'.

It is...tricky as it is.

I'd personally be ok with them being a new type of rank called 'E' which are just little tricks you can do with magic just by being a mage and perhaps these 'tricks' can be purchaseable.

From that post I'd say that the problem with Tertiary Magic isn't that it's heavily restricted but that it just isn't allowed to be useful in any way when every single ability you can think of has some use.

Pretty much or that is how I see it.
In truth it was a system that was introduced by the old gen of admins and nothing was ever really explained about it to me. So what I assume about it could be completely wrong

Let's see what you think of this idea.

We introduce 'spell books/scrolls' to the shop.
These 'spell scrolls' contain simple free to use spells which once you have the scroll you can use. These would be very minor things.

Ideas (so far by me) include:
Hair Customization - Allows one to change their hair colour, length and style (within reason). Probably some limits like you can't change length or style when someone is grabbing it (otherwise you could use it to escape)
Eye Customization - Allows one to change eye colour, pretend to have heterochromia, have cat-like eyes etc
Photo - Allows you to take a mental photo of something which you can then generate a 'printout' of.
Skin tone change - Allows you to change your skin tone.
Makeup - Allows you to create and generate makeup on your body at will
Tattoo - Allows you to form tattoos on your body or hide them.

'Spell books' would be a group of scrolls that 'relate' to eachother bought in bulk for cheaper e.g. you could have the 'cosmetics' spell book to allow you to do the Hair, Skin, Eye and makeup ones.

That sounds amazing. Spellbooks would be much better than the useless crap of a Tertiary system that we have now. Honestly, as long as the system is revamped, I'm fine with anything, but these Spellbooks sound like they would be great.

A further thing I was thinking on this is that you get so many 'slots' and these increase naturally as you rank up.

So D might have 3
C 4
B 6
A 8
S 10
H 15

As this idea may go forawrd i'd appreciate any suggestions for spell scrolls or entire spell book sets.

To be perfectly honest... *scratches head*  Putting a slot limit to simple spells like this over-complicates things in my opinion.  You could simply just put a hard-cap on all scrolls (let's say.. 10 total) and it'd be up to you which 10 spells you want.  If someone goes over 10 scrolls, it's up to them to decide what 10 to keep and what 10 to abandon.

Personally, I don't really like the purpose of these scrolls. It removes a lot of player-driven creativity.

I would rather Tertiary magic be unlocked at D Rank with 1 spell slot each rank.
Putting the restriction that: Tertiary magic cannot be used in combat and are just there for RP purposes ONLY.
With the addition of that note, it'll keep things nice and creative for people to make on their own without using unnecessary jewels.