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    Ninetails Derpfox

    Moderator- Developer/GFX Artist- Gain An Artifact- Quality Badge Level 1- Quality Badge Level 2- Quality Badge Level 3- Coming Storms- A-Rank- Rich- Veteran Level 1- Character History!- Magic Application Approved!- Get A Pet!- Character Application Approved!- Complete Your First Job!- Obtain A Lineage!- Join A Faction!- Grand Master [2000]- Master [1000]- Senior [500]- Novice [250]- X-Mas Event Participant- 1 Year Anniversary- Player 
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    First Skill: Soul
    Second Skill: Ice
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    Continuation from previous topic Empty Continuation from previous topic

    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 30th August 2015, 3:00 am

    Signature spells.

    Now you see why I made a separate thread for this.


    At the moment, we can have a signature spell free of charge on Primary and Secondaries. We can gain another signature by sacrificing weapon or armour slots up to Legendary.

    However, It's a bit jacked up that I'm sacrificing my ability to have INFINITE WEAPONS (weak) for 1 single MP free spell that caps at C Rank, and only gets 1 effect. I know, the argument is that it's MP free so no sacrifice. My argument is, I'm losing the ability to have weapons or armour...

    It's also a bit messed up that I sacrifice a Legendary weapon, and only gain 1 spell. Since I can have my legendary weapon with 2 spells, and both of them cap at A Rank.


    So, how do I propose we fix this imbalance?


    Keep the free signatures the same, there's literally no sacrifice at all.

    Make the other signatures equal in value to the sacrifice.

    What depends the marginal utility of the signature?
    Rank of weapon/armour sacrificed, and give the option to turn your Artifact or Majestic item into signature slots. **must own the artifact/majestic

    RankBenefitCap
    WeakMax 2 effects
    C
    StrongMax 3 effects
    3rd effect must be quite weak, like deal 1/5 rank damage if it deal dmg
    B
    LegendaryEither gains 2 spells with max 2 effects, these spells cost 1/2 MP cost
    or 1 spell with max 3 effects that costs no MP. 3rd effect can be moderately powerful, like deals 1/2 spell damage (in the form of a status effect) if it deals damage at all. 
    A
    Artifact** Must own an artifact

    Either gains 2 spells with max 2 effects, these spells cost 1/2 MP cost
    or
    1 spell with max 3 effects that costs no MP. 3rd effect can be moderately powerful, like deals 1/2 spell damage (in the form of a status effect) if it deals damage at all. 
    S
    Majestic** Must own a Majestic

    1 spell of each rank that have a limited amount of effects.
    D + C have 1 effect
    B + A have max 2
    S Rank can have 3
    H rank is H Rank, but is 1 time only


    OR


    Instead of 1 spell of each rank, the player gains 2x S Rank spells that cost 1/2 spell rank MP
    H
    Eris
    Eris

    Lich of hell


    Lich of hell

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    Continuation from previous topic Empty Re: Continuation from previous topic

    Post by Eris 30th August 2015, 7:22 am



    6. You can still have a weak rank weapon/armor and have a signature spell of the rank

    The Weak weapon traded is actually very good.  It's a second freebie signature essentially.

    The only problems with Signature Spells are:
    • The rank caps on the ability to trade for them.   There is no such cap on weapons,  thus it is stupid for there to be one on Signature spells.   Signature Spells cost jewels.   If you can buy the weapon,  you can trade that weapon (When bought) for the signature spell.
    As an H, this doesn't effect me.  But this isn't about me.  I want to see low ranks utilizing signature spells when it just doesn't make sense for them to use weapons.  Everybody and their mother is throwing around giant swords or scythes and katanas.  This is Fairy Tail RP,  beyond requip you just don't see that many weapon users.  Instead you see mages who freely use certain spells. 
    _____
    • Staff enforcing cooldowns on Signature Spells freely.   Cooldowns on signature spells should be a last resort.   I see far too many good signature spells tarnished by forced cooldowns.  Even really basic fireball effects,  which are the heart of signature spells as the intended "Basic Attacks" of spell focused mages.
    ____
    • Whatever the devils constitutes "One Effect".   It's a ridiculous rule about as vague as they come.  Removing it and judging a spell normally for complexity and effectiveness is all that is needed.  None of this "Effect" business.  If it makes sense,  go for it.  If it's too complex, maybe tone it down or then get into cooldowns. 


    I cannot say I agree with this suggestion and I see no imbalance,  as the one who suggested signature spells and someone who makes frequent use of them.


    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    Continuation from previous topic NvVyM98

    Continuation from previous topic CkggyrF

    Deception | Despair | Domination
    H 1 S 7 A 7+1 B 8+1 C 9 D 11
    d a m n a t i o n
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    Ninetails Derpfox

    Moderator- Developer/GFX Artist- Gain An Artifact- Quality Badge Level 1- Quality Badge Level 2- Quality Badge Level 3- Coming Storms- A-Rank- Rich- Veteran Level 1- Character History!- Magic Application Approved!- Get A Pet!- Character Application Approved!- Complete Your First Job!- Obtain A Lineage!- Join A Faction!- Grand Master [2000]- Master [1000]- Senior [500]- Novice [250]- X-Mas Event Participant- 1 Year Anniversary- Player 
    Position : None
    Posts : 2261
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    Character Sheet
    First Skill: Soul
    Second Skill: Ice
    Third Skill:

    Continuation from previous topic Empty Re: Continuation from previous topic

    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 30th August 2015, 8:14 am

    Lady Red wrote:


    6. You can still have a weak rank weapon/armor and have a signature spell of the rank

    The Weak weapon traded is actually very good.  It's a second freebie signature essentially.

    The only problems with Signature Spells are:
    • The rank caps on the ability to trade for them.  There is no such cap on weapons,  thus it is stupid for there to be one on Signature spells.   Signature Spells cost jewels.   If you can buy the weapon,  you can trade that weapon (When bought) for the signature spell. As an H, this doesn't effect me.  But this isn't about me.  I want to see low ranks utilizing signature spells when it just doesn't make sense for them to use weapons.  Everybody and their mother is throwing around giant swords or scythes and katanas.  This is Fairy Tail RP,  beyond requip you just don't see that many weapon users.  Instead you see mages who freely use certain spells. 
    ♣ Actually, you don't have to buy the weapon. You sacrifice the slot, so you forfeit the ability to even have that weapon/armour
    ♣ The abilities of weapon spells do in fact have a cap... but you can trade your weapon slot for a signature at any rank. Just ask a mod to open your app, and then make the signature stating what slot you're sacrificing.
    ♣ My opinion is that if you're sacrificing the ability to even have that item, you shouldn't be so damn limited.

    _____
    • Staff enforcing cooldowns on Signature Spells freely.   Cooldowns on signature spells should be a last resort.   I see far too many good signature spells tarnished by forced cooldowns.  Even really basic fireball effects,  which are the heart of signature spells as the intended "Basic Attacks" of spell focused mages.
    ♣ the way it's done, from my experience, is that active abilities like that fireball are put on CD. Passive things like small buffs are allowed to be permanent, unless it's like +15% then it becomes an active. Which I think is retarded but I don't make the rules.

    ____
    • Whatever the devils constitutes "One Effect".   It's a ridiculous rule about as vague as they come.  Removing it and judging a spell normally for complexity and effectiveness is all that is needed.  None of this "Effect" business.  If it makes sense,  go for it.  If it's too complex, maybe tone it down or then get into cooldowns. 
    ♣ Callin' em devils doesn't help your argument, just makes em wanna turn away
    ♣ what staff calls "one effect" is basically the initial effect of a spell. EX: A fireball's initial effect is dealing damage. I think it's stupid because a fireball signature would be barred from burning the target. Fire... that doesn't burn... Still stupid to me.



    I cannot say I agree with this suggestion and I see no imbalance,  as the one who suggested signature spells and someone who makes frequent use of them.

    ♣ You just contradicted yourself... you see no imbalance, yet you have voiced opinions against the current system.
    Eris
    Eris

    Lich of hell


    Lich of hell

    Moderator- Developer/GFX Artist- Regular VIP Status- Gain An Artifact- Quality Badge Level 1- Quality Badge Level 2- Quality Badge Level 3- Horseman- 11 Sinner- God Of Ishgar- Ten Wizard Saint Member- Guild Master- God Slayer- Demon Slayer- Dragon Slayer- Legal Guild Ace- H-Rank- S-Rank- Richie Rich- Rich- Veteran Level 3- Veteran Level 2- Veteran Level 1- Magic Application Approved!- Obtain A Secondary Magic!- Get A Pet!- Character Application Approved!- Complete Your First Job!- Obtain A Lineage!- Join A Faction!- Senior [500]- Player 
    Lineage : Devil's Conquest
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    Posts : 1471
    Guild : Grim Heresy [GM]
    Cosmic Coins : 5
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    Character Sheet
    First Skill: Sunset Eclipse - The Sandstorm GS
    Second Skill: Titan Eclipse • Devil Pact
    Third Skill:

    Continuation from previous topic Empty Re: Continuation from previous topic

    Post by Eris 30th August 2015, 8:25 am

    Seikatsu wrote:♣ Actually, you don't have to buy the weapon. You sacrifice the slot, so you forfeit the ability to even have that weapon/armour
    That is not how it is supposed to work and it encourages everyone to buy weapons anyway because of the limitations on signatures that aren't imposed on weapons. You buy the weapon, you gain the slot. You use it for a signature spell instead. It's that easy, no ridiculous rank requirements for the player. If you're C with a sacrificed Artifact, it's still going to have C effectiveness just as a weapon would.



    [color=#0066ff]♣ The abilities of weapon spells do in fact have a cap... but you can trade your weapon slot for a signature at any rank. Just ask a mod to open your app, and then make the signature stating what slot you're sacrificing.
    Of course the abilities have a cap. They rank with you as Signature spells would up to their caps. I said that there is no cap on your weapon availability. If you can buy it you can use it, just as it should have always been with signature spells. So instead of a pure mage early on they would have to buy weapons to be at the peak of their game, and grow reliant on them, like them, want to keep them and not give them up later for the signature spot that was made unavailable to them.



    ♣ the way it's done, from my experience, is that active abilities like that fireball are put on CD. Passive things like small buffs are allowed to be permanent, unless it's like +15% then it becomes an active. Which I think is retarded but I don't make the rules.

    That isn't a signature spell -.-; Signature Spells are by their very nature active abilities as active as swinging a sword. Passives are passives, unique abilities or sacrificed spells.



    ♣ You just contradicted yourself... you see no imbalance, yet you have voiced opinions against the current system.
    No, I did not. Signature spells aren't imbalanced. I have issues with the way things are handled, which has little to do with balance. Signature spells are fine. It's how they are treated.


    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    Continuation from previous topic NvVyM98

    Continuation from previous topic CkggyrF

    Deception | Despair | Domination
    H 1 S 7 A 7+1 B 8+1 C 9 D 11
    d a m n a t i o n

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