The worst enforced rule

There is a rule in our midst that has been around since the founding of the site and was never once enforced. The time has come to axe it or enforce it.

It reads something like "Guildmasters who leave their position are to be removed of the exp they were given to rank up to SS-Rank." It was ruled as such so that any guild master who left their post would be returned to their previous rank, or whatever rank they may have earned through the experience they gained as a Guildmaster.

But despite many Guild Master's coming and going no one has been held accountable to this, unless they volunteer to be ranked down. Sure the rules mention exceptions can be made in exceptional circumstances, but can we really say that every single ex-gm counts as exceptional circumstances? If everyone is exceptional no one really is.

Heck even Temp Guild Masters have been permitted to keep the exp.

So what do you all think? Axe it or enforce it?

I have never believed Guild Masters or would-be guild masters should be ranked up at all, to begin with.

It has long been a loop-hole and often power play to instant-rank and in some cases bypass every rank up to it,  from D to SS.


I don't mean that against anyone who is or has been a GM,  it's a note that irks me about the rule itself and I don't feel poorly towards anyone who has benefited from it. Especially back when people could just donate for the rank, or back when people could make RP samples to get placed at a rank. Back then it was fine, and was a means by which non-donors could match donors.

But that isn't the case anymore.

I agree with Siren here too. I always saw gaining a GM spot was just power play stuff. Like they get S-rank and then can do 10 yr jobs for when they step down to keep their rank. A leader doesn't have to be the strongest but lead. Not all leader as the strongest in story.

Wow people really do that? GM should only be for the fact of rping in it, not for power mongers.

This isn't directed towards me, is it? I just find the timing for asking this ironic.

Seeing the conversation in the cbox that occurred just before this thread I can tell you that it's not about you.

No I didn't even think about you doing this Decaface. I don't want to target individuals. Because as I said: it has not been enforced once in the history of the site.

As for axing the guild master rank up entirely? Yes please! I am all for that! Knock me down to A-Rank! ; - ; even if my S-Rank spells are super cool and the world would be a sadder place without them. I shouldn't have had them in the first place.

But as I am aware that is kind of an extreme move as that takes a lot of exp away from a lot of people who at least in their own minds believe they've earned it. Again I am all for it, but I understand if action isn't taken.

But what I wouldn't understand is if we continued to ignore is this horribly unenforced rule. Again we need to axe it or enforce it. Having limp meaningless rules just hanging around just leads to confusion.

^ Great idea. Or...we could lower the EXP reqs by a little...but that's an entirely different conversation.

Simon's suggestion is a good one too. I didn't even know it was a thing that people kept their rank and imo that's a bit ridiculous.

EXP requirements have been lowered left and right. Please don't bring that in here.

Applying for ranks was a system we killed for good reason. No single post regardless of quality can measure up to the hours people pour into gathering the EXP for their ranks. There simply isn't any comparison. Applying for ranks greatly devalues our system as a whole.

I know anytime someone says "S-Rank," in a suggestion it immediately becomes a loaded topic and breeding grounds for "lower S-Rank exp requirements!" But please let's keep to the specific issue I've tried to address here. EX-GM rule, shut it out or make it shine.

Well...I support this. That is all.

Axe the boost given to Guild Masters entirely. People who are currently a GM can choose to return to a past rank, or even a rank in between, but no new GMs should gain any boost. GMs could be of any rank that they could normally be an Ace.

SS rank could remain as a stepping stone to H (That is also easier for people to rank to without the special restrictions applied to H) With the new rules that are in place SS is more than just a courtesy / participation reward.

Heero-chama wrote:We could go back to Seijin's original creation...letting people RP during their Sample for their beginning Rank.

Back when S-Ranked apps had to be literally acid trip mindblowing for you too get Approved. Just a thought.

P.S
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It would help make things less stale, as the whole wonder of "A new S-Ranked challenger or wizard" has appeared on the scene. Which is one of the most majestic points of Fairy Tail. The thought that there may always be something / someone new on the horizon.

We've had the same H's and S's on the site for years now. Let people apply for new Ranks on a case by case basis.

Maybe if you're A and you feel you can handle S now you should be allowed to apply.

Maybe if you're D and you wanna skip C outright you should be able too. Or if you wanna start at D that's fine too. A LOT of people would continue to start at D just for personal pride. Anyways. Heero out!

 

If this ever came back It'd need to be a one-shot deal. Like you get one opportunity to place each year. Some sort of yearly Grand Exam event even?

Dunno. But it's a sticky situation. I think reintroducing it would cause a lot more chaos than if we had never taken it out.

I agree with Siren on this one regarding the rank. The chaos would be insane.

I won't name anybody, but there are a lot, and I mean A LOT of people who want to be S or H rank, or people who think they deserve it. In some ways, I was once one of those people, but instead of trying to "earn" it or think I "deserve" it, I worked for it.

If people are given a chance to even attempt to get to S rank without the requirement of going through jobs, then the staff would possibly be overloaded with so many RP samples and grading on top of everything they're doing right now.



EDIT: Not a bad idea, Heero. I'm just saying that it wouldn't really work and would be Hell on the staff.

Yeah, what they all said. Things are a lot easier to manage as they are with ranks. It also allows anyone who puts in the work to be the rank they want rather than focusing on how good of an RPer a person is. I see if we focused on how well people RP that it could really hurt the community by labeling who is a better RPer which is not what we are here for. We are here to have fun together. Not try to one up each other.

Also Siren, on the note of SS-rank, it has always just been the rank given to GMs it seems and is really just a slightly better S-rank. If anything it can be added later but to get back on topic, I agree with what Kira and Siren is saying here if it wasn't already shown in my earlier post.

I'm with Lady red. There have been times where C or B ranks magically jump up to SS rank with gm status due to the circumstances of a guild and its unnecessary.

So maybe then have that rule apply and when they leave they loose their ranks but keep the expierence of any jobs they did while GM. You do still have to rp alot to get exp to rank up even with s rank(at least I think so).

A long time ago i suggested to the Admins a Minimum rank for a char to be to even start a guild/become GM. So to say it was shot down, but there are some instances where its required. Please note that i tried to reject my auto rank on Kakuma, unfortunately when i created the guild a A rank member joined and i was forced to rank up or surrender the guild i had spent so much time making stuff for. Obviously if a guild does not have Higher ranks such as a newer guild losing its GM, that would make a exception but some guild have been through multiple GM's in a short period of time. What it comes down to is the Auto rank, which i am against completely honestly. I like the idea of having to Rank up and grow into a position, it adds more worth to a guild and it GM.

In short, Enforce the rule and put a min rank requirement to become the GM or allow a GM to take it at a lesser rank. This will make ranking up a higher rank difficult but is that not what guild relations are for?

Firstly a few things,

I am considering making SS rank an official rank on site rather than the pseudo rank it is now. It would not gain new spells, but it would, to use the new systems, have HP, melee damage etc set to it.
It's only benefit in terms of magic would be slightly lower spell costs and the the extra slot that is availiable to H ranks.

This would be avaliable to all members and wouldn't be limited to vips, gms or the one ace.
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As for the auto-rank I am fine with removing this system. However, if we do so then I am tempted to instigate a new rule in that you have to be at least A rank in order to be made GM of a guild and this would include founding one. It makes no sense whatsoever for the GM of the guild to be a D rank for example. That is my thought on this.
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As for the ranking down...I am unsure whether this has NEEDED to be enforced in the past. When Shuhei stepped down he had H rank exp, when Decayuss stepped down he had at least S rank exp. When Zuo stepped down...they turned into a tree.

I'm trying to think of other examples. Kinda lost track of who used to be GMs. Erm....

*takes a deep breath*

Legacy - ST
King Zenshin -ST
Zuo Cii - LS
Decayuss - ES
Nightken -FT
Heero - FT
Shuhei -BP
Phantom King -TT
Storm -SM
Leapflight -FT
Samus -FT


Sure im forgetting a few

As a GM myself, i don't care much about my rank, though as Zack said, a D-rank running a guild, wouldn't make much sense. The SS rank from what i know, is for new guilds, as without the guildmaster as a higher rank, they have no firepower against older guilds. Yes, it's a weird reason and doesn't become apparent much, but it does in events. 

If the dark guild gm's weren't ranked up, the events would have at max 2 dark mages, who are higher than A. Adding that up against all the high rank legals, wouldn't make sense. So from what i understand, the SS rank is to boost small/new guilds, so they have a shot when something comes up, like a bolster or defense for the guild.

Though i don't mind losing my SS rank or lowering it, it's not why i became a guild master, it's just a novelty and it can be lost. But at the same time, lowering a GM to D-rank, an older GM that is, won't make sense, they could be lowered to like A or B, which are the ace ranks, so it makes more sense. 

And i fully agree that starting a guild, should have a minimum rank you need to be, like at least B-rank.

Minimum rank to become a guild master appeals to me. I'd vote A-Rank. Sure in the olden days when I first joined B-Rank was super rare, but with triple exp jobs and the like sitting around B-Rank is only going to become more and more common place.

Speed Demon Zack wrote:
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As for the auto-rank I am fine with removing this system. However, if we do so then I am tempted to instigate a new rule in that you have to be at least A rank in order to be made GM of a guild and this would include founding one. It makes no sense whatsoever for the GM of the guild to be a D rank for example. That is my thought on this.
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I'm fine with that, though-

I don't particularly see the reason not to. There are weak guilds in the cannon, things like Cait Shelter I believe, and could add a new atmosphere for different types of players. I can imagine a cutesy guild. If people would want to join such a guild in support of their magically not all there guildmaster then I imagine there wouldn't be a problem.

On the other hand it would limit the generation of new guilds. I'd rather see guilds getting dismantled and remade than new ones getting added.

As for the ranking down...I am unsure whether this has NEEDED to be enforced in the past. When Shuhei stepped down he had H rank exp, when Decayuss stepped down he had at least S rank exp. When Zuo stepped down...they turned into a tree.

I'm trying to think of other examples. Kinda lost track of who used to be GMs. Erm....

It doesn't really need to be retroactively applied. A simple "From henceforth no GMs are granted a boost" works fine.

Elijah wrote:
If the dark guild gm's weren't ranked up, the events would have at max 2 dark mages, who are higher than A. Adding that up against all the high rank legals, wouldn't make sense. So from what i understand, the SS rank is to boost small/new guilds, so they have a shot when something comes up, like a bolster or defense for the guild.
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I'm pretty sure the dark guilds would be just fine. They can get away with a lot regarding plotting and schemes and if they actually wanted to destroy something, there's jack-all the legals can do against it. In the face of AoEs and destruction, all they have to do is get a spell off meanwhile in the act of fighting you they threaten what they mean to defend almost as much as you do.

Clementine was dangerous because that's what she did. She was there to destroy, it doesn't matter if you fought her, when the mininukes start flying things get broken. Just as you intended to begin with.

A single dark mage of even A-rank can be on their own a major hazard and threat to a city while it would take significant effort to minimize their damage and put them down as soon as possible to stop them.