the extra mile (more exp suggestions. >.> yup I'm still talking about it)

something I touched a little in my last little suggestion which got mostly ignored. Ultimately since the sites remodeling and updating itself right now systematically I'm going to try to keep my suggestions on that little path to avoid giving the staff more work and just ideas they may or may not have conjured up themselves. More minds is never a bad thing. ;)

Anyway this topic is going to be about missions. My issues with experience as a whole is well documented in the multiple suggestions and request I've made to expand on it. This is another such topic.

Experience today is set. It has a specific number. The only way to get more is to go on missions with other people which is great. It's actually a possible 50% boost. but what about other things? Such as greatly surpassing the word count average by a considerable margin or creating a unique story for which the mission wasn't originally meant to create?

Shouldn't effort be rewarded in some way? If somebody does a mission that's only 150 words a post but isn't pushed to greater heights they'll be stuck at the bottom with less motivation to really take it up a notch. But what if their was a possibility to get a little extra oomph of experience to doing the same mission with an average word count of 250? Obviously there's a limit but going the extra mile is deserving of praise always and I'd like to see something like a possible 10% experience boost for doing more in a mission than was originally intended.

Staff is also required to read the mission, to make sure it was done properly(or followed the mission criteria at least). If more missions were interesting it would be more enjoyable for staff members to do these missions. Missions get interesting because players did more than average and what everyone else did. Reading the same mission done the same ways over and over again is ridiculous and boring. The occasional surprise is interesting and keeps the game enjoyable and staff work a little less trite.

Naturally dictating 'originality' compared to others is difficult and subjective and possibly not a good thing to do as it would cause havoc in our sites already 'difficult' relationships with staff and players. So I guess my ideal system is not realistic. When a specific number like word count is brought up though, it makes life a lot easier and less subject to personal opinion. I'm not asking for massive 50% boosts like you give for doing missions with other players. But a little 10% oomph for doing missions and putting a little extra effort into detail would never hurt. Anyway my personal numbers at the bottom in the spoiler have fun yelling at me or supporting me. :3

Spoiler:

many may ask, "why did the boost never change?" The answer for that is that the amount of exp already gained from mission rank to mission rank already goes up. So the boost will go up as well. My numbers aren't always perfect though and maybe somebody has better numbers. Actually I think the 100 year mission numbers can be a little high on word count increase. Maybe keep it stagnant regardless of mission rank? This would require a little experimentation beyond a normal players ability. Anyway, suggestion made, comment requested,

Dude this idea is great the extra credit is great for good role players and it makes them feel better about each other so I vote yes on this one hundred percent because who does not just wanna scream and shout and let it all out.

As I always make an effort to exceed the word limit (And I usually do, by a margin of 100 words no matter what rank the job is) and make the jobs interesting, I support this idea. It'd be nice to see us hard-workers rewarded, and lazy posters galvanized into action by some EXP boosts.

Seems like an awesome idea to me! The only issue I could see is if missions end up like Kronk talking about the poison for Kuzko from the Emperor's New Groove.

I can't agree with this. Exp should be of little matter when it comes to RPing, if all your doing is Rping for power then its kind of pointless. Go play a video game or something. Honestly adding any "Bonus" Exp, when there are plenty of ways to get bonus exp already just con volutes things.

Guild Bonus 25%
Team Bonus 25%
Limiters, double the Exp gained.

Adding another one just makes things more of a pain in the butt to do. meaning i have to pay attention to the word count of every post instead of read it, Check the word count and move to the next. I mean Szeras and I did a job where we surpassed the post count by nearly 20, simply because we liked where the story was going. Thats what Rping is about, the story. I have found that more and more people just want to be "The Hero" and not ever do anything the jepordizes their status. And because of this another set of ways to get exp is lost.

Invasions systems, Which if you did enough gave you Multipliers which you could apply to jobs.
PVP system, Something that was suppose to be fun but got ruined by the power gaming.

I get that everyone views their char as the hero, but sometime being the sideline guy holds more lessons then being mister hero. And their for... I do not support this, both as a Player and a staff  member.

Oh and for you who give me the "My chars goal IS power." Thats cool mate, the things is how did they get there? Who did the tread over? Do they have many friends? I just feel if more people cared about the story then this place would still be cool. But as it stands i almost dislike RPing here anymore, staff makes systems off of suggestions. Which is how the PVP and Invasions systems came to be, and instead of saying "thanks for trying," we got crucified. Honestly if your chars goal is just power... i dont think thats a very cool char. A cool char is one that can fail... and grow from those failures. one that can bleed and die. One that has emotions, that are tested by his and his allys actions. And what your telling me is that you want to be rewarded for doing something that we expect already? And again I can't support this. XD Broken record much

@Kakuma
Ok I know Im taking a break, but I stil come here to read threads and other things like this, and boy did some of the comments you make somewhat anger me Kakuma. From what I read, and correct me if I'm wrong, your saying that A) going the extra mile shouldn't be rewarded with a very simple system(Will expand on this in a moment) and B) all be the side character's side characters.

Now to start off with Point A. This is fundamental education right here. Lets take someone who is new and doesn't know much. They see "HEY this is how I grow stronger after being told I'm lower than the dirt." They don't know much about rp and are probably One-liners or very new. So they do some practice and they eventually learn  how to do longer post, whether it be doing it somewhere else or someone does a Social with them to teach them. So lets not take this to a mission. They do a OUTSTANDING job, in both ways, but wait, they did it by themselves as a solo mission. This means no bonus exp and they literally are stuck with exactly 25 exp. Time for another 5 missions to just get C rank. Now wouldn't that little bit of bonus exp not seem really nice and a great motivation saying "Hey I read your job, and its really great,l let me give you this bonus." Tell me how when in moderation that isnt a good thing.

Now for point B and you may be wondering where I got this from. I will gladly tell you saying that unless your a GM or a mod or a Ace or something like that, your probably not that popular among anything except your little team or guild. Their are those few exceptions out there who do make it known in the site but its highly unlikely. I feel like you don't understand this fact and think everyone can just go about their merry rp life all "Im gonna let my character get stomped into the ground repeatedly by someone and be all like  yea let me find some miracle fruit and its all better"  Granted a little bit of actual character development is needed but for the sake of motivation, people need their hero moments and I don't ever see that happening here. I know from personal experience that the only place I felt any connection to and felt like I was making a difference in was Cor Draco, the Guild that everyone bashed on cause it was new and filled with new people. So please tell us to take more bashings and lessons in character development and see how well that works.
@Everyone
I do see that a little bit of a bonus good be nice, it would help motivations and could be add to more than just word count, maybe even quality of the RP. There is nothing wrong with a little bonus to things, even if it comes out as Jewels even, jsut something to show someone you liked it and it was a good improvement.

Why not just have the staff member in charge of looking over a job apply at their own discretion anywhere from a +5% to +20% boost based on how well they think the applicants went the extra mile or the quality they see in the quality and creative or otherwise interesting content of the posts. 

They already look over jobs to begin with, right? 

Would give people an incentive to make interesting reads compared to filler text.

Rewarding good behavior and habits is something that is universally good,  there's a reason people do it everywhere in all sorts of fields.

If you're not rewarding good habits,  you're encouraging bad habits.

I love making detailed well thought out posts,  to the best of my ability.  But to do so in jobs is only a determent.  It only makes everything take longer.     This wouldn't be a problem with just word-count requirements,   but with both word-count and post-counts you're encouraged to meet the minimum in order to make the post count,  which can be very high.  

I have,  in the past,  simply made my one long posts by accident and had to cut and paste into separate posts before,  in fact,  just to keep meeting the minimums.   That isn't exactly a bad thing,  but it isn't good either.

The issue with your second point Tatsumi is there is nothing stopping you making yourself well-liked or popular inside your guild or outside. With Shiraz my candy make mage I made him popular in fairy tail for a bit because he was a fun, interesting character. He wasn't the hero or a guy who was going for power. All he wanted was to make everyone happy and make some really delicious food and sweets. As such when I talk about dropping him (as i don't use him much) to a few members I get speech of 'Nooooo not the candyman' and the like.

The same goes for Sinali, even if she is an ace, i've built her not for popularity, but for fear. Even when she was a lowly D rank I made her into a creepy, scary character who people didn't want to be about even if they were higher ups. However, every now and then she has had her 'hero moment's or 'villain moments' to be more approriate and that is fine. However, she doesn't always do such things.

I for one am trying to RP more with her for RP sake then for power. Yes she's A rank, but I was happy with her at B rank and C rank and even D rank.

Even if your character is weak that doesn't have to make them boring. You don't need power to be make an interesting character. You don't need to be the hero to make an interesting character. Look at Macao or Wakaba in the manga/anime. They aren't power houses, they aren't heroes, but they are enjoyable characters with a good dynamic. Same for Jet and Droy.

I can see the point in rewarding extra exp, but I also don't see why its such a big deal. It isn't hard for people to find others to RP with. This is an RP site its meant to be about roleplaying with others and developing bonds whether they be good or bad. Also like Kakuma said...we've made systems and changes based on suggestions before. What has it done for us? Caused nothing but hassle.

For now I think limiters, double exp jobs, team bonus, guild bonus, lacrima milk etc are enough for people.

Furthermore, we already reward quality. How? With the quality badges. You show us good rp threads where you have done outstanding work? Ok. We'll give you the ability to do more jobs at once and thus you can level quicker.

And tbh complaining about the D to C gap taking too long...its like six jobs each of which are really easy at D rank.


In terms of new systems like this we won't be introducing it for the time being. Perhaps in the future, but for now we will focus on fixing systems that the site already has that are broken. If you have suggestions regarding them then feel free to make them. I am also not saying stop making suggestions. However, don't get annoyed if the staff decide they won't be implemented or dislike the idea. We all are entitled to opinions.

Pointing to Kakuma's points:

I don't understand the guild bonus and I don't think it should exist. I'm pretty sure I joined after it was created though so unfortunately I didn't have much say or get a two cents in on it, although I hate the fact that a single group is alienated (guildless) and doesn't have access to the guild bonus.

Team bonus is understandable but too high to begin with. Getting people to rp together and giving them a 25% boost for it is rather high. I would have kept it to 10% all the same as I'm suggesting here.

Next is limiters, I honestly think limiters need to be reworked a little. How to rework them I have no idea. I love the idea but I have no idea how it should be properly implemented so I'm avoiding that entirely. Why do they need to be reworked? Because npc enemies are controlled exclusively by the players, so the threat is somewhat minimal. Now using them in events or pvp would be fantastic as they are now as you don't have free reign over your enemies movements and such and can give yourself an edge but in missions I'm not sure how it would work properly.

There's also the option of adding a bonus cap which limits how powerful you can be at what point.

ALSO,

because its a little off track:

As for zacks points, anything I would have disputed I think I already touched. I never even knew quality badges existed though(because I avoid the badges entirely probably like I avoid lineages).

Only thing I don't think I touched on was about the systems made through suggestions but that's another argument for another day. I appreciate everyone's feedback good bad or indifferent and no I won't feel bad about things if this doesn't get implemented I'm just happy when I spark genuine conversation about things. The goal was to try and get back to the rp centric realm we were. I was hoping to offer an idea in how to do that through incentives. This was about a particular incentive (and went into another thing).

The mission exam is more of a thing that the guildmaster decides.

For example, for Sinali when she performed her B to A rank exam it was to explore into her past and overcome the memories she had locked away. So it was to develop her character and show the power increase from B to A.

The lesser exams need less of this whilst the higher ranked ones need more.

However, plot is only really a good thing for this if that character has plot. Some don't. Some just rp to do jobs.
--------------------------
Guild bonus is 25%, team bonus is 50%.
This is because of the 'bonds' you hold as a guild I suppose. and Team even more so as you are more than just a guild member you are a team who know how to work together.

I can agree with this being dropped in terms of percentage. However, people complained that it was too hard to rank up and so we introduced this.

---------------
Limiters are being worked on.
As currently they are exploitable.

I agree with this. I usually surpass the word count by at least a million words every post. I should get at least 9001% exp boost for that. Where's my nobel prize?

Forreal though, please listen to what Sirenine said and consider the following:

Delete word per post counts. They're an unintuitive method to have people meet an arbitrary standard of the amount of words they should stuff in a post. It's illogical. If you want people to write a lot and create a lot of story for a mission, you can have large word counts they need to meet. 100 Y mission e.g. 30.000 words. That's about 100 posts if you write 300 words on a post per average, which people usually do from what I've seen.(I know I know, some of you write more and just like me, deserve the nobel prize in writing a lot of words in a single post).

So forreal, consider dropping word per post counts and exchange them with pure word counts. Makes it much easier to balance posts. Writing 200 during a scene where little is happening. And homing it in with 1k posts when the action goes down. Where's the harm in that?

That doesn't always work though Lyserg. And we like to have decent length posts which is why we put a minimum amount of words per post.

I can understand a minimum word count per post, though it could be made lower, but keep the minimum word count for the overall thread. A balance between the two wold be best, since, as Lyserg said, there are some moments where there really isn't a lot happening, causing some people to have to add in filler.

Decent length posts =/= being required to write 450 words on a post where you respond to a question, or stuff food in your mouth. Especially dialogue is somethig you are seeming to completely disregard. Dialogue is fast paced. People don't usually say ten things without the other person listening and never responding. You usually respond, and then add onto with your own question or statement. That doesn't always equate to a large wordcount. And I don't WANT it to equate to a large wordcount. Part of the reason why I simply don't do missions is because I hate these word per post count requirements. I don't want to read a post where half of it is just empty words and I need to fish out the important parts, just because there's a 400 words per post requirement. And this is not laziness, I love reading large posts. When they actually mean something. Small scenes require small amounts of sentences and words to feel right. Regarding that, you do realize that with the amount of words you can control how someone reads the scene? Having too many of them in some scenes just takes away the pace and demotivates me personally from reading.

So yeah. Word counts per post are not really a good systematic when they get ridiculously high, and wanting "decent length posts" is not an excuse for having horrendous requirements in some missions. I will give you the decent length posts when they're due. I don't want to need to meet a post minimum just because someone thinks 200 words per post is not enough to qualify for a specific mission, when I compensate for those small scenes with large, smart and fluent posts that actually express something. Having these 450 words per post just makes me want to do 450 words and not more everytime. I've given up on some missions because the word per post requirement just got annoying, and I don't want to bend to some arbitrary requirement that applies, but bares only harmful use in situations that arise more often than not.

And Zack, why doesn't it always work? As in, where wouldn't it work? Can you give me an example?

You're all wordy and I'm tired so I only read the first post entirely. Sorry if I'm a broken record. Here's my view: Good things should happen when people do good things. Let's not make this harder then it has to be. We're a site filled with first time rpers and a lot of them are out to be "powerful" so I think we should take steps to encourage quality rp over power hungry rp. Now giving bonus exp for quality rp is the best of both worlds you give them what they think they want(exp) by helping them understand what they really want(good rp).

Lyserg an example is this:

100 year job. Fighting H rank monsters.
Minimum overall count is say 60,000.

Member is fighting a H rank monster. Doing 100 words per post and so essentially just on that one monster they are going to do a ton of posts probably, but they will be boring and kind of at the state where mods will be yawning reading it. Might just be my reasoning.

The words per post thing and minimum posts just means that we need to have a decent level of RP per post. However, I could perhaps see having an overall word count and a minimum of words per post....but then we have to manually count all of the posts and add it all up to make sure it meets the minimum rather than just making sure each word meets the minimum

So you really have that little trust in the people who get to fight H Rank monsters? o.O

You just flat out assume people will just do 600 posts each 100 words long? I think that sounds like a quite ridiculous assumption. The people who are at high ranks, and achieve these high ranks are not inexperienced roleplayers that can very well distribute word counts throughout their posts in balanced manners. I just don't see the point in assuming the worst of people and going by that.

Again, wanting a decent level of roleplay is not achieved through arbitrary word per post counts. They actually dampen the quality of a many posts that I've read. Might just be my reasoning.

I'm saying people could. Or they will only put in effort when needed. Some people do the bare minimum just because they can.

People could also just not roleplay at all. Your argument is kinda invalid because it assumes that people somehow will have less quality by distributing the words written on a number of posts. It's nonsensical. Your conclusion is that because people don't have to write 450 words per post every post, they will just not do it at all ever anymore.

https://www.fairytail-rp.com/t11355-nightmare-challenge-the-mystery-of-the-mystic-towernot-fully-converted-to-unique-yet

500 words per post, really? I will just go out and say, that that's complete bullshit. Sorry, but it's not the content of the mission, just the requirements that make this mission not overkill, but just unnecessary. 500 x 30 posts would be 15000 words, which in itself is only a small amount. So somehow, writing a lot of words in one post outweighs buliding up a story with some small posts, and then moving on to bigger posts with more content? Writing 100 posts that each contain 300 words ON AVERAGE is somehow worse than writing 30 500 post words? I just don't see it. Please explain the logic in that.

And again, going from this 500 words per post and high quality posting as requirements, apparently stuffing a lot of words into posts = quality? I just don't see. It's a stupid mission because of that and it will never get attempted or completed. And if it does get completed, my assumption is that half of the posts will be overfluffed wordlings that don't contribute to any kind of roleplaying quality.

This is just one example. It's the heaviest example of word per post requirements just being out of control for some missions, but yeah.

We've kind of derailed the subject from 'bonus for increased quality' to 'why is there a minimum word count.'

Although I do have something to say about that.

Couple of days ago I did the mission Liberation Of Slaves on my own. Mostly because I couldn't really find anybody else to do it with and suspected that soloing it would be faster.

I started the job full with optimism and enthusiasm. Write lots, make cool story, get reward. Simple, no?

Then I realized that with each post I was mainly just making sure I would be matching the minimum word count, and also trying to drag things on for long enough to reach the minimum post limit.

While I still managed to squeeze some enjoyment out of it I mostly just thought 'this feels like a chore'.

After I finished that job I really wanted to find people to go on jobs with because I imagined that might help to counteract the boredom.

Honestly the problem is a combination of words per post and amount of posts. Yes, if you're lucky you'll have so much fun with the job that the post limit doesn't matter, but that isn't guaranteed, not something you have full control over, and even then sometimes you'll just find yourself thinking 'I have no idea how to make this post bigger'.

The current system has the effect of enforcing a certain amount of quality required from everybody. However it doesn't really encourage people trying to go beyond that required level. Yes, the good RPers will still try, but to a certain extend they'll be struggling with the rules to accomplish that.

Fil, I'm thankful for your input except for the very last part.

Having large posts does NOT equal quality. Being elaborate and descriptive does not equate to large posts everytime. Saying quality is required in relation to word per post counts being required is simply false. Writing a lot in posts is simple, and is nothing more than tedious if forced.

Quality does not come from enforcing a certain of words per post. That's just not where quality comes from. Determining a decent level of rp with the amount of posts someone writes per post is just demotivating.

Lyserg I do see your point and it will be taken into consideration as will rewards regarding extra exp.

However, you do realise this will put more work on an already busy staff? That is the main issue with it. It means every time we review a job we have to check if its exceeded it. Still like I said its worth considering.

I've found working around the word count and post count a healthy mental challenge for myself. Also, I have managed to encorporate my own personal plot into it. Rather than just doing the missions for the sake of doing the missions

Saying "Hey, that's a really valid point, we just don't have the manpower to enforce it right now, please be patient while we do the more necessary stuff right now" is the best possible answer. Really. I was staff, and it's most satisfactory to give that statement, to both sides.

And there are easy ways to regulate it, at least that I have in mind. They're unnecessary to state right now, so I won't. Just for future reference, perhaps it's a good idea (:

Well, Lyserg after a bit of discussion with the staff we have come up with a sort of midway solution between what you want and what we have now. Its not quite as free as you would like it, but I think it should easily allow a lot more freedom.

It also takes into consideration the 'i've tried really hard' bit that this thread was originally about. However, these extra rewards are not based purely on post or word count. Just becuase you can write 2000 words a post for a 500 word per post job (as it currently stands) doesn't mean that 1500 of those words are fluff and filler for the sake of building up word count rather than actually developing anything.